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Kamala Harris for Pres

fishonjazz said:
Idk man. I think that if everyone at the bottom was given raises (the cheap labor vanishes with the immigrants being deported or stopped from coming in) then more spending would happen and more goods would be purchased and businesses would see an opportunity to make more money and therefore raise prices.

I'm not super knowledgeable on this stuff but my common sense and logic are pretty strong suits of mine and they are telling me this would happen. Definitely could be wrong though.

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You aren't necessarily wrong. Muscle labor goes where muscle labor is cheapest. That said, it's a bit more complicated due to legal issues and the international market. There is a reason why the US, some Asian, and European markets maintain a certain GDP and average income despite economic drivers changing from agricultural to industrial to service-based. That said, certain factors come into play such as the amount of currency involved and demand for that supply. We're seeing that now where housing prices are starting to fall in certain areas and mortgage rates are dropping without the Fed dropping rates. It's because no one was buying homes. The supply can outstrip demand, but the demand will never outstrip the supply (in general) if folks can't buy up that supply.

That said, the powers that be which govern a society need a portion of that pie to make society function. How much of that supply the government gets matters a great deal because they are at the front of line and are paying for the bar mitzvah, which leaves only so much for the rest of the fam. That said, it's something of a misnomer to say that cutting taxes in general spikes an economy. Short term shot, yes, but the government still has its own bills to pay and, trust me, they will make due on those bills. What matters is a rational tax structure and spending policies. This is why the 90s were such a boom time without a subsequent depression to follow. Because, despite all the dysfunction in the WH and potshotting by Republicans and Democrats, there was a balanced budget and things were smooth economically speaking. So no one cared if Billy-boy got a hummer or not.

All that aside, supply and demand have more factors than just product and wants.
 
It feels like we have a culture in america currently that is at an all time high for greed while also at an all time low for caring for others and doing for others.

Having trump be the leader of the country is a really bad way to get that culture to shift. Of that im certain. He is about as money/greed driven as anyone I have ever seen and cares less for others than about anyone I have ever seen.
 
fishonjazz said:
Ah but if the illegal immigrants are keeping wages down then they are also keeping prices down.
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Well this is incorrect. Let’s take affordable housing for example (I keep bringing this up). With the massive influx of illegal immigrants now there is a shortage of houses available for low earning citizens. When there is a shortage an owner who puts their house for rent, now receives a 100 applicants. What does the owner due, well he realizes that he listed his house too low and adjusts it upwards. The same way if the homeowner gets 0 applicants, he will then adjust the property downward.

fishonjazz said:
It's a catch 22. If workers make more money then they can spend (demand up and supply down is the result) more money and prices go up.
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Now when there are less low skilled citizens, then companies will have to compete to give them more money to fill their positions. Those low skilled citizens can now get in affordable housing easier with less competition. Then these citizens will have more disposable income.

Obviously it’s a bit more complex but this simple idea explains the concept I’m trying to get across.
 
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fishonjazz said:
It feels like we have a culture in america currently that is at an all time high for greed while also at an all time low for caring for others and doing for others.

Having trump be the leader of the country is a really bad way to get that culture to shift. Of that im certain. He is about as money/greed driven as anyone I have ever seen and cares less for others than about anyone I have ever seen.
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Here is that old guy talking again, about this:

View: https://x.com/ian_mckelvey/status/1824510333915963748?s=46&t=BMMZjW7vq0_zwnmLDjNTgQ
 
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fishonjazz said:
Can you summarize the point being made? (i hate watching videos and much prefer reading)
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What person/country is not built on greed. Is economic or political more virtuous. Where are these angels in the world that can build a society perfectly?

Took me 2 mins to write this, just as much time as the video. Plus he does it with more detail and elegance.
 
I saw harris propose something that didn't get much attention or discussion: New laws to deter corporations from buying up single-family homes and raising rents. What do people think of this?
 
Bucknutz said:
What person/country is not built on greed. Is economic or political more virtuous. Where are these angels in the world that can build a society perfectly?

Took me 2 mins to write this, just as much time as the video. Plus he does it with more detail and elegance.
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You might have not understood my post. I was saying right now we are the MOST greedy and LEAST caring.

Im reading a book right now about this man who recently passed away at 108 years old (The Book of Charlie). It talks of his experiences in his life and the things he saw and did and lived through. He talks about companies, like ford, back in the day that really cared about their employees and about society. They would make their products as cheap as they could and still make some profit but not as much profit as possible. He was a doctor and he talks about how himself and his peers in his profession weren't in it for the money and when society had things like depressions and recessions that they would just keep plugging away and not get paid. They would get meals at their patients homes and help putting up a new fence and whatnot as payment.

Anywho, my point was that greed is at an ALL TIME HIGH imo and caring for other is at an ALL TIME LOW and that I think trump encapsulates both things more than just about anyone. I didnt say that greed will go away and that not caring for others will go away. Simply that I think its a bad idea to encourage EVEN MORE greed and EVEN LESS caring like trump does. We can agree to disagree though.

Like imo there are different degrees/amounts of greed. Doesn't mean there is greed or no greed at all. But there can be less and there can be more. Like I could be quite greedy and never contribute to charity and never pitch in to pay for gas when going fishing with a friend or whatever but I might find a wallet with cash in it and return it to the owner. Someone else might also never give to charity and never pitch in for gas but try to find the wallet owner and return it to them with the cash still in there. trump would remove the cash and throw the wallet in the garbage or maybe try to do some grifting/scamming and remove the cash then find the owner and tell them the cash was already gone when he found out and try to get a reward for returning the wallet with the driver license in it at least. (Maybe call them and tell them he has the wallet but won't return it unless they pay him. He likes extortion as we saw with his perfect phone call to Ukraine's leader)
 
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Grocery prices were 26% higher in July than in 2019. By a variety of measures, corporate profit margins remain fatter now than before the pandemic.

It remains unclear exactly how Harris’s proposed ban on price-gouging—a term with no clear definition—would work.

“Enforcement would be very difficult,” said Michael Sinkinson, an economist at Northwestern University who served in the Biden White House. “A better way to control grocery prices is to ensure there is healthy competition and price transparency. Both of those have been central to the current administration’s economic policy.”

For his part, Trump doubled down on past promises to use presidential authority to impose tariffs, saying he would impose rates as high as 20% on imports, up from an earlier proposal of 10% and to cut taxes, including on Social Security benefits. Economists say such a measure would aggravate inflation, especially for lower-income people.

Neither candidate said how they would pay for their plans. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates Trump’s proposed elimination of taxes on Social Security benefits would hasten the date when the plan’s trust fund runs out of money, and increase deficits by $1.6 trillion over a decade. It estimates a $1.7 trillion hit to the deficit from Harris’s proposals to expand the child tax credit, earned-income tax credit and health-insurance subsidies, and her support for housing.

The avalanche of policy proposals came even as the political and economic ground appeared to be shifting. Trump has long counted on voter anger at high inflation, but recent data show prices rising at their lowest rate since 2021. And while voters still consider inflation a top concern, some polls show they don’t blame Harris as much for it as Biden.

Trump is trying to paint his own picture of Harris as outside the mainstream. “We have to define our opponent as being a communist, socialist or someone who will destroy our country,” he said at a press conference Thursday. “She’s got an uphill battle on the economy,” he said, “and she’s carrying the weight of the Biden economy with her. As much as she’s trying to unload that burden, I don’t think the voters are going to let her unload it completely.”
 
MT Steve said:
Price control works when it comes in the form of breaking up monopolies
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Wait, what?!?. Establishing price controls and breaking up monopolies are opposite ideas.

Monopolies are broken up to increase competition, serving to empower the free market.

Price controls are abolishing the free market by creating a state monopoly to dictate pricing.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
Wait, what?!?. Establishing price controls and breaking up monopolies are opposite ideas.

Monopolies are broken up to increase competition, serving to empower the free market.

Price controls are abolishing the free market by creating a state monopoly to dictate pricing.
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I believe what he was trying to say is that breaking up monopolies is what needs to be done to help lower prices.

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fishonjazz said:
I saw harris propose something that didn't get much attention or discussion: New laws to deter corporations from buying up single-family homes and raising rents. What do people think of this?
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It is an attempt to demonize a group as a prelude to seize their property. The Nazis did the same thing to the Jews. The real problem in the real estate market is constrained supply due to the costs and prohibitions associated with the permitting process, which is already fully under the control of the government.

Corporations are buying homes BECAUSE government is hindering the supply side which serves to increase prices. The corporations aren’t raising the prices. The government action is raising the prices, and the corporations are taking advantage of it.
 
fishonjazz said:
I believe what he was trying to say is that breaking up monopolies is what needs to be done to help lower prices.
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I have no problems with breaking up monopolies. I'm for breaking up large corporations into smaller competitors before they even become monopolies, but none of that should be used to justify what Kamala has proposed. Price controls are bad news.
 
The Thriller said:
Please stop calling them illegal immigrants. This is a term that is no longer acceptable. If you want to have an adult conversation then please start calling them undocumented immigrants. And Trump has called for deporting more than undocumented immigrants. I wouldn’t expect you to know this because you either lack the character to admit that you were wrong or because the junk information you consume only successfully indoctrinates you.

No, I don’t believe we should be deporting undocumented immigrants, asylum seekers, political opponents of Trump, and DREAMers. I don’t believe in breaking up families. I believe in the American dream. I believe that we should welcome as many hard working immigrants as possible. But if Trump succeeds at deporting the millions of people he says, it will deal tremendous damage to our country, economically, socially, and morally.

If you truly care about racism, please denounce this man right now and promise that you’ll do everything in your power to defeat him this fall. Do it, I dare you.


View: https://youtu.be/HcMFmoTCdcU?feature=shared



View: https://youtu.be/6edVqIY67JM?feature=shared



View: https://youtu.be/BURiu_OvWdU?feature=shared


(Hitler literally said this)
View: https://youtu.be/RKPFjAhd3KQ?feature=shared
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They are illegal immigrants. They are here illegally. They are immigrants. It is the most accurate and factual term for what they are. It’s not derogatory, it’s just accurate. It’s not like you or I can just move to Australia and live there without going through their processes.

I’ve spoken against Trump many times. I don’t need to prove myself to you. We’re not talking about Trump. We’re talking about your language, where you said we need illegal immigrants for cheap labor. And how apparently, that’s a fine way to talk. Can’t call them illegal, but we can sure as hell say they’re good for cheap labor!
 
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