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Kanter is ready to be an all-star

NAOS said:
That trade is nice, but why Millsap instead of Jefferson? If you take their C, they'll need a C. Putting Jefferson's expiring next to Ibaka could be nice for them. Approved.
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Jefferson doesn't work money-wise and wouldn't fit into OKC's offense (okay, now use the 2nd part against me).

JJAS said:
Can't say that I'm surprised AKMVP enjoyed this. Much discursive creativity and dialogic fantasy in this post, but that happens when someone envisions themselves as a maverick.
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The brashness of Jazzfan_2814 made that character a more entertaining wordsmith.

NAOS said:
I must spread some rep before repping you again
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Now you're just cheer leading your side rather than substance. Then again, you always gravitated toward that old wordsmith.

--You're looking at year progression not minute progression (after one year = Dwight: 2670; Stoudemire: 2570; Bosh: 2510); (after two = Favors: 2911)
--Favors' stats were just fine in comparison to these guys, and Kevin Pelton has likened Favors' progression to Bosh, J. O'Neal etc.
Click to expand...

So Favors will put up post-2670 numbers equivalent to Dwight's 2nd year?
There's a reason future All Stars are allowed so much playing time their rookie seasons. Dwight was raw but he HAD an offensive game--footwork, spin moves, PnR reading, ability to move defenders out of the way & then dunk over everyone where Favors panic passes the ball out. Howard needed both practice and game time to refine the skills he already had. You are asking to give Favors playing time to invent a new skill.

NBA games aren't a stage for raw rookies to create new dance moves on. If Favors can't create a go to move in practice then he sure as hell is not going to do it in real time against the best defenders in the world.
 
franklin said:
Jefferson doesn't work money-wise and wouldn't fit into OKC's offense (okay, now use the 2nd part against me).



The brashness of Jazzfan_2814 made that character a more entertaining wordsmith.



Now you're just cheer leading your side rather than substance. Then again, you always gravitated toward that old wordsmith.



So Favors will put up post-2670 numbers equivalent to Dwight's 2nd year?
There's a reason future All Stars are allowed so much playing time their rookie seasons. Dwight was raw but he HAD an offensive game--footwork, spin moves, PnR reading, ability to move defenders out of the way & then dunk over everyone where Favors panic passes the ball out. Howard needed both practice and game time to refine the skills he already had. You are asking to give Favors playing time to invent a new skill.

NBA games aren't a stage for raw rookies to create new dance moves on. If Favors can't create a go to move in practice then he sure as hell is not going to do it in real time against the best defenders in the world.
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Argh! I just got burned by the spreadsheet.

Am I cheerleading, or am I just refusing to engage on substance since I see your game (which isn't primarily about substance)? I will give you credit for being your own cheerleader to your own revamped cause.. I love you.
 
franklin said:
So Favors will put up post-2670 numbers equivalent to Dwight's 2nd year?
There's a reason future All Stars are allowed so much playing time their rookie seasons. Dwight was raw but he HAD an offensive game--footwork, spin moves, PnR reading, ability to move defenders out of the way & then dunk over everyone where Favors panic passes the ball out. Howard needed both practice and game time to refine the skills he already had. You are asking to give Favors playing time to invent a new skill.

NBA games aren't a stage for raw rookies to create new dance moves on. If Favors can't create a go to move in practice then he sure as hell is not going to do it in real time against the best defenders in the world.
Click to expand...

I will be the first to admit that Favors needs to get his offense in order, as my previous post noted: . But here's food for thought with /36. Keep in mind this is from both players' second seasons, but it is Favors at 2911 minutes and Howard at 5691 minutes. I also don't buy the argument that we can't afford to have him out there since his minutes went up in the Playoffs and he was arguable the best all-round player on our team. So, if Favors gets up to 5691 minutes this year, and does not put up similar numbers to Howard /36, then we can start to worry a bit more. I have many doubts, but I'm reserving judgment until we stop pussfooting around with his minutes only to assure ourselves of mediocrity rather than attempting to be great. At this point, I see no argument for starting Millsap over Favors unless you do so for the first twenty games and it's a disaster.

[table="width: 100, class: grid, align: left"]
[tr]
[td]Player[/td]
[td]Points[/td]
[td]Rbds[/td]
[td]Assts[/td]
[td]Blks[/td]
[td]Stls[/td]
[td]2%[/td]
[td]FT%[/td]
[td]TO's[/td]
[td]PER[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Favors[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]11.1[/td]
[td]1.1[/td]
[td]1.7[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]50%[/td]
[td]65%[/td]
[td]2.7[/td]
[td]17.1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Howard[/td]
[td]15.8[/td]
[td]12.5[/td]
[td]1.5[/td]
[td]1.4[/td]
[td].8[/td]
[td]53%[/td]
[td]60%[/td]
[td]2.6[/td]
[td]19.3[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
 
Finding myself agreeing with franklin. I don't think people understand how awful our offense would be without Jefferson, or a good PG. You're getting better defensively, but then the team will take three steps back offensively.

We all know how much better Sap plays with a good point guard (see playoffs). Hayward doesn't strike me as a player that an offense can revolve around. Favors at this stage of the game needs a PG. Kanter is at BEST a year away. Its the preseason, lets not proclaim him a 20/10 player just yet.


Right now, I think KOC has ingeniously set up a team where he could potentially maximize the value of assets he plans on trading. Imagine how much value our team could have if we are 4th in the West @ the All-Star break. We could ship Jefferdad OR Millsap for a lottery pick, or package them with the GS pick for a lower lottery pick. Maybe we could even target a good PG.


This current team roster is probably the best Al-suited roster that Al has ever played with. Have a backup PF that can cover his defensive weaknesses, packed with seemingly-consistent shooters, have another Frontcourt player in Millsap that he can cede duties to in an instance where he might be having an off-night. Very excited to see what happens with this roster this season.
 
dalamon said:
Finding myself agreeing with franklin. I don't think people understand how awful our offense would be without Jefferson, or a good PG. You're getting better defensively, but then the team will take three steps back offensively.

We all know how much better Sap plays with a good point guard (see playoffs). Hayward doesn't strike me as a player that an offense can revolve around. Favors at this stage of the game needs a PG. Kanter is at BEST a year away. Its the preseason, lets not proclaim him a 20/10 player just yet.


Right now, I think KOC has ingeniously set up a team where he could potentially maximize the value of assets he plans on trading. Imagine how much value our team could have if we are 4th in the West @ the All-Star break. We could ship Jefferdad OR Millsap for a lottery pick, or package them with the GS pick for a lower lottery pick. Maybe we could even target a good PG.


This current team roster is probably the best Al-suited roster that Al has ever played with. Have a backup PF that can cover his defensive weaknesses, packed with seemingly-consistent shooters, have another Frontcourt player in Millsap that he can cede duties to in an instance where he might be having an off-night. Very excited to see what happens with this roster this season.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with you. And, I think Franklin and I more or less agree. That's because we all realize a trade or two is needed to finish off this transitional stage. We can troll around on the details, but we all see the need to capitalize.

KOC is playing the long game. Fine. It just might work. But deals better be in the offing.
 
If we do get rid of Al I think that Marvin "the wet bandit" Williams could play sometime at PF especially against second unit PF that would also open up more room for Burks at the two!!
 
KOC has done a fantastic job of bldg two cores.. he has bult an older core. Al, Sap, Marvin, Foye and Mo.... and lwets all be honest... thats not to bad.. we could of got alot worse players to come to utah. but at the same time he has been bldg a pretty convincing young core. enes, favors hayward burks, and PG TBD latter... its getting to a point now when there is a little of a rd block, but i am staring to see what many others have already seen. our young guys need one more year being 2nd before the will be ready for all the weightt andresponsiblity that comes with being the starting 5. KOC has planned it perfectly. at the end of this year we have two big exp contracts al and sap... and if our youngs have showed the want it and can do it we can let them walk... ITS GOING TO BE AN EXCITING YEAR!!! lots of firsts. and i dont think any of us should pretend we know the players better then coach Corbin or KOC. i think they have a plan. after all we are the JAZZ!!! we have plans, we arent the maveriks just shooting from the hip when things fall though. we are a winning orginization, its all we know how to do. its outr legacy as the utah jazz, overcoming odds and expectaions!
 
NAOS said:
I actually agree with you. And, I think Franklin and I more or less agree. That's because we all realize a trade or two is needed to finish off this transitional stage. We can troll around on the details, but we all see the need to capitalize.

KOC is playing the long game. Fine. It just might work. But deals better be in the offing.
Click to expand...

Do the actions taken in the last two years give you hope?
 
dalamon said:
Finding myself agreeing with franklin. I don't think people understand how awful our offense would be without Jefferson, or a good PG. You're getting better defensively, but then the team will take three steps back offensively.

We all know how much better Sap plays with a good point guard (see playoffs). Hayward doesn't strike me as a player that an offense can revolve around. Favors at this stage of the game needs a PG. Kanter is at BEST a year away. Its the preseason, lets not proclaim him a 20/10 player just yet.


Right now, I think KOC has ingeniously set up a team where he could potentially maximize the value of assets he plans on trading. Imagine how much value our team could have if we are 4th in the West @ the All-Star break. We could ship Jefferdad OR Millsap for a lottery pick, or package them with the GS pick for a lower lottery pick. Maybe we could even target a good PG.


This current team roster is probably the best Al-suited roster that Al has ever played with. Have a backup PF that can cover his defensive weaknesses, packed with seemingly-consistent shooters, have another Frontcourt player in Millsap that he can cede duties to in an instance where he might be having an off-night. Very excited to see what happens with this roster this season.
Click to expand...

M'man's back! Welcome bro but I think frank does not have a clue about how scoring Goonther can play when he gets starter minutes. I don't blame him though. We should judge on whatever we witness. But I'm saying this right now: You know the Howard effect? That the opposition defense focuses too much on stopping and doubleteaming him that there will be enough space for outside shooters. You got Enes, you got one in your hands.
 
addictionary said:
. But I'm saying this right now: You know the Howard effect? That the opposition defense focuses too much on stopping and doubleteaming him that there will be enough space for outside shooters. You got Enes, you got one in your hands.
Click to expand...

Enes is not at that level. He may score on some backup frontline in limited minutes he will get - not enough to force other team to change their defensive strategy and open up perimeter shooting. Lets be realistic, to have Howard's effect you need to have Howard's minutes and touches. Don't see that happening with Enes this year. Plus you need to be able to pass out of double team in the post - Enes at this point is very poor passer, unless he improves it he will never have "Howard's effect"
 
AKMVP said:
Enes is not at that level. He may score on some backup frontline in limited minutes he will get - not enough to force other team to change their defensive strategy and open up perimeter shooting. Lets be realistic, to have Howard's effect you need to have Howard's minutes and touches. Don't see that happening with Enes this year. Plus you need to be able to pass out of double team in the post - Enes at this point is very poor passer, unless he improves it he will never have "Howard's effect"
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As soon as he gets his head up my friend, as soon as he gets his head up.
 
AKMVP said:
Plus you need to be able to pass out of double team in the post - Enes at this point is very poor passer, unless he improves it he will never have "Howard's effect"
Click to expand...
Did you happen to catch the second Clips game? If he can pass like that consistently, he'll be a much better passer than Howard or Al could ever dream of being.
 
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dalamon said:
This current team roster is probably the best Al-suited roster that Al has ever played with. Have a backup PF that can cover his defensive weaknesses, packed with seemingly-consistent shooters, have another Frontcourt player in Millsap that he can cede duties to in an instance where he might be having an off-night. Very excited to see what happens with this roster this season.
Click to expand...

Excellent points all around, & I must spread it first.

Not to mention how winded Al becomes when playing long or intense minutes. He'll be much more of a commodity on the defensive end when his minutes are cut back. I have no doubt we'll see that this season. Corbin should pull these four aside and tell them there are only 96 minutes and each gets an equal share, minus Kanter maybe. It's a 100 yard dash with four batons so run your *** off every second you're in the game. Whoever doesn't will start losing minutes to the guy who goes the hardest, then leave it up to the players to determine how many minutes they want to earn.

JJAS said:
I will be the first to admit that Favors needs to get his offense in order, as my previous post noted: . But here's food for thought with /36. Keep in mind this is from both players' second seasons, but it is Favors at 2911 minutes and Howard at 5691 minutes. I also don't buy the argument that we can't afford to have him out there since his minutes went up in the Playoffs and he was arguable the best all-round player on our team. So, if Favors gets up to 5691 minutes this year, and does not put up similar numbers to Howard /36, then we can start to worry a bit more. I have many doubts, but I'm reserving judgment until we stop pussfooting around with his minutes only to assure ourselves of mediocrity rather than attempting to be great. At this point, I see no argument for starting Millsap over Favors unless you do so for the first twenty games and it's a disaster.

[table="width: 100, class: grid, align: left"]
[tr]
[td]Player[/td]
[td]Points[/td]
[td]Rbds[/td]
[td]Assts[/td]
[td]Blks[/td]
[td]Stls[/td]
[td]2%[/td]
[td]FT%[/td]
[td]TO's[/td]
[td]PER[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Favors[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]11.1[/td]
[td]1.1[/td]
[td]1.7[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]50%[/td]
[td]65%[/td]
[td]2.7[/td]
[td]17.1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Howard[/td]
[td]15.8[/td]
[td]12.5[/td]
[td]1.5[/td]
[td]1.4[/td]
[td].8[/td]
[td]53%[/td]
[td]60%[/td]
[td]2.6[/td]
[td]19.3[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Click to expand...

A lot of Favors points come from garbage play. Hustle is a fan favorite and necessity, but it's hardly something to compare to one of the league's top 5 players' game.

I agree that we won't be hurting with Favors on the floor at this point in his progression. Noah, that big hair **** from Cleveland, Chandler, Ibaka--all important pieces.

NAOS said:
(yes, Franklin, I'm aware that JJAS is one of your alts. This has still been fun.)
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Thanks, but you're insulting someone who's a pretty damn good writer by insinuating JJAS is me. I'm also not a movie aficionado and am too drunk to ever remember lines.
 
GVC said:
Did you happen to catch the second Clips game? If he can pass like that consistently, he'll be a much better passer than Howard or Al could ever dream of being.
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Yup, that one pass to Burks for the top of the key 3-pointer was better then any passes he had all last year. But I need to see more of that in real games and on regular basis to be convinced that he can do it consistently.
 
franklin said:
Not to mention how winded Al becomes when playing long or intense minutes. He'll be much more of a commodity on the defensive end when his minutes are cut back. I have no doubt we'll see that this season. Corbin should pull these four aside and tell them there are only 96 minutes and each gets an equal share, minus Kanter maybe. It's a 100 yard dash with four batons so run your *** off every second you're in the game. Whoever doesn't will start losing minutes to the guy who goes the hardest, then leave it up to the players to determine how many minutes they want to earn.

A lot of Favors points come from garbage play. Hustle is a fan favorite and necessity, but it's hardly something to compare to one of the league's top 5 players' game.

I agree that we won't be hurting with Favors on the floor at this point in his progression. Noah, that big hair **** from Cleveland, Chandler, Ibaka--all important pieces.

Thanks, but you're insulting someone who's a pretty damn good writer by insinuating JJAS is me. I'm also not a movie aficionado and am too drunk to ever remember lines.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of this and am more doubtful of Favors now than ever and have been disappointed with is play so far. My major point is that I would like to see some big minutes against mainly starters before I cut him short. It's good to have your voice though even if it is apparently from time to time inebriated.
 
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