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KOC's Method of Negotiation

I have already explained it. See my other posts. If you just let the market dictate, this is going to continue to happen. Ok, maybe now that we didn't match, Portland will be hestitant next time. But it still leaves us vulnerable to losing guys we want if we don't make reasonable offers and try to lock them up before someone else tries to steal them.
 
The position from the Matthews camp from the beginning was that the opening bids for his services would start at the full MLE. That doesn't sound like he was willing to take less, and if he was then it is their fault for starting the bidding so high. I loved the kid as a Jazzman, but he's the enemy now.
 
write4u said:
I have already explained it. See my other posts. If you just let the market dictate, this is going to continue to happen. Ok, maybe now that we didn't match, Portland will be hestitant next time. But it still leaves us vulnerable to losing guys we want if we don't make reasonable offers and try to lock them up before someone else tries to steal them.
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That's just how it goes, Write. It's the way it works. Stop acting so damn naive.
 
KrazeeEyezKilla said:
I personally would have offered 4 years, 15M. Not too high to hurt us as far as the cap is concerned and also not five years so if he doesn't develop as we had hoped, his contract isn't seemingly never-ending. In general, he'd be a very tradeable asset too at that price. Yet, for Wes, this is a solid dollar amount and length of contract and one that would be tough to turn down I think.

Worst case. He turns it down and bolts. Which he did anyway.
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So if KOC had offered that before the FA Signing period, he would have been a 'good' negotiator? It has already come out that they wanted to discuss 3 and 4 year proposals and were turned down. So what's the difference between KOC formally offering, say, 4 @ 15, and saying he's willing to work 3 and 4 year deals? It's not like Wes or his agent didn't have some ballpark idea what that meant since his top salary was the MLE number.
 
write4u said:
I have already explained it. See my other posts. If you just let the market dictate, this is going to continue to happen. Ok, maybe now that we didn't match, Portland will be hestitant next time. But it still leaves us vulnerable to losing guys we want if we don't make reasonable offers and try to lock them up before someone else tries to steal them.
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Why offer a guy less when he's going to look elsewhere anyway? 4/16 in my mind is overpaying for Matthews. Matthews started the process at the full MLE.

When the person you're negotiating with demands more than double what you think is fair, negotiations pretty much go nowhere.
 
bat said:
I am sorry if this hurts your feelings write4u, but this is a business, and KOC is a buyer and Matthews is a seller.

And if you know anything about buying and selling, the buyer rarely sets the price, its the seller that tries to determine his whole value.

The last thing you want to do as a buyer is set a bar higher than what the seller is looking for.

So let say KOC said "We will offer you the full MLE" when Matthews was only looking for a 5 year 20 million dollar deal. Then you are a team that is overpaying for a product, and that's not what you want to do. Portland, did become the buyer, and they made an offer higher than market value, and now they are stuck with a contract that is too big for that product.

When Wes's camp came in saying they were looking for the full MLE, KOC suggested he see if he can find that on the market, because as a buyer he had determined that the product wasn't worth the full MLE, even though the seller was set on making that much money off of his product.

Your problem is you are angry the Jazz aren't matching, but you are trying to say it's the Jazz fault for not offering less when really the fault goes to Portland for offering so much. Contracts like this are bad for the NBA, and that is Portland's fault, not KOC's.

You fail, Raja Bell FTW.
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This may hurt your feelings, but you have never EVER don't any negotiating have you? While you attempt to establish the buyer/relations you fail to recognize that OF COURSE Wes' camp was going to say they wanted the Full MLE. Just as they probably anticipated that the Jazz would offer less than. It opens up dialogue to do actual negotiations. It's true, that Portland still could have come in where they did and won out.

However to say that the seller sets the price, that only works in retail. The Jazz would have set the price they wanted to start at, allowing Wes' camp to do the same. it was terribly reactive and didn't really jive with their assertion that Wes was a 1a priority. IF he's that important you don't sit back and react.

As it sits, Wes' response indicates to me that he was shocked and feels like the Jazz didn't really want him back. There was no offer, there was no baseline to start with (a QO is hardly a baseline). So of course he went with the first actual offer he got. Portland came strong and Wes had nothing to compare it with.
 
3 mil per was, at most, what the guy was worth. But that doesnt matter really. The whole gist of this post is lame. KOC is a businessman, he doesnt need to play Mother Teresa and make people feel good.
 
Wesley got the absolute max he could. Going "with the first actual offer he got" is irrelevant. He got the money he was looking for, money that would never have come from the Jazz. I doubt he would have taken the "first offer he got" if it was the 3/9 O'Connor probably wanted to start at or the max 4/16 that I'd bet O'Connor would max at.
 
honz said:
It seems as though wrong4u and others aren't interested in facts...

From Ross Siler of the Tribune via Tweeter:

Wesley Matthews charges Jazz never made him an offer, but team was told from beginning it would take max midlevel to re-sign him. Jazz wanted to talk about three- and four-year contract options. Why would they start bidding at the ceiling of what could be offered? So they told Wes that if he wanted max midlevel, he'd have to go out and get it and they'd decide about matching.
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This. KOC discussed an offer, Matthews wasn't happy with it, and found a better one. Such is life. This thread has no merit now that the facts are out. KOC did EXACTLY what you wanted him to. Now apologize.
 
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