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Kris Dunn

KqWIN said:
Not blocking development doesn't seem like a crazy concept to me. If we didn't have Butler, I probably would prefer Dunn. I'm not strongly tilted one or the other. I feel awkward being the Anti Dunn guy because I loved him before, but his persistent injuries (it sounds pretty bad) and the acquisition of Butler has changed my tune on that. Butler's development has really high priority for me and I'm not too concerned if/when there are some growing pains. His late start only makes my stance stronger on this. If he's behind, he needs more reps to catch up. I don't want him to be further behind.

I'm comfortable if one of our main guys go down to injury because it's happened several times and the record has been just fine (better even). If he somehow bombs the record...oh well. Winning the RS was never the goal. I'm also not too concerned with giving him too much too fast. If he's not ready to be a big time creator, no big deal. Our team has so many guys who can share responsibilities.
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If Dunn is healthy we have an elite defender who you used to love... if not then Butler plays... I mean sounds like a win-win solid upside play to me.

Butler's development is important but the goal is to win a title... not to develop a player. If Butler is good right away that helps... Butler's shot at being good and ready when it matters took a hit with the late start... we are an ankle or knee sprain away from him not really having a shot to be ready by season's end. The margin for error is smaller. Even if he looks solid in a Desmond Bane type of role I don't think he's the guy you throw out there for 10 minutes a night in the playoffs to slow down Dame, PG, Booker, Murray. If they decide the cost is prohibitive then fine... but that's my primary concern if I am Jazz management. They don't project as the same player types at all and I want options on the bench when it comes to playoff time (even if Quin doesn't use them having the options allows us to more fairly judge his coaching ability).

If Mike were out there is nothing that prohibits us from getting Butler and Dunn 15 minutes each. If Butler looks like the second coming of Brogdon and Dunn is healthy then great... you could likely move Dunn again to lower your tax and maybe pick up a second for your trouble... or you make the decision to move on from JC and get something. Adding Dunn does not prohibit a bigger move later... it actually may facilitate that.

Its the same type of fact pattern that led us to not bringing in a vet to block Oni's development... why bring in a vet to play over that guy... Oni had more experience than Butler... and he failed. Then you get in a playoff series when Niang and Oni are garbage and have nothing to turn to. By all accounts they have said they are all in on this year... Dunn is a move consistent with that idea.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
If Dunn is healthy we have an elite defender who you used to love... if not then Butler plays... I mean sounds like a win-win solid upside play to me.

Butler's development is important but the goal is to win a title... not to develop a player. If Butler is good right away that helps... Butler's shot at being good and ready when it matters took a hit with the late start... we are an ankle or knee sprain away from him not really having a shot to be ready by season's end. The margin for error is smaller. Even if he looks solid in a Desmond Bane type of role I don't think he's the guy you throw out there for 10 minutes a night in the playoffs to slow down Dame, PG, Booker, Murray. If they decide the cost is prohibitive then fine... but that's my primary concern if I am Jazz management. They don't project as the same player types at all and I want options on the bench when it comes to playoff time (even if Quin doesn't use them having the options allows us to more fairly judge his coaching ability).

If Mike were out there is nothing that prohibits us from getting Butler and Dunn 15 minutes each. If Butler looks like the second coming of Brogdon and Dunn is healthy then great... you could likely move Dunn again to lower your tax and maybe pick up a second for your trouble... or you make the decision to move on from JC and get something. Adding Dunn does not prohibit a bigger move later... it actually may facilitate that.

Its the same type of fact pattern that led us to not bringing in a vet to block Oni's development... why bring in a vet to play over that guy... Oni had more experience than Butler... and he failed. Then you get in a playoff series when Niang and Oni are garbage and have nothing to turn to. By all accounts they have said they are all in on this year... Dunn is a move consistent with that idea.
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I don’t get the idea of Butler and Dunn competing for minutes. They’re playing completely different roles. At least they should be. Unless Quin makes Dunn the default backup PG, then there should only be a minor overlap in the types of minutes they would compete with each other for. Butler is the new Neto. He can get more minutes off-ball as a shooter. Dunn is a utility guy who’s going to siphon minutes from guys who don’t bring as much on the defensive end (and some of Royce’s minutes so we’re not telling him “hey, you’re the only guy out here doing this for 36 minutes, play hard”). Dunn shaves a couple (just a couple) from JC, from Bojan, from Royce, from Ingles, from Don, from Conley, etc. Then he can get whatever Oni minutes there were. And injuries.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
If Dunn is healthy we have an elite defender who you used to love... if not then Butler plays... I mean sounds like a win-win solid upside play to me.

Butler's development is important but the goal is to win a title... not to develop a player. If Butler is good right away that helps... Butler's shot at being good and ready when it matters took a hit with the late start... we are an ankle or knee sprain away from him not really having a shot to be ready by season's end. The margin for error is smaller. Even if he looks solid in a Desmond Bane type of role I don't think he's the guy you throw out there for 10 minutes a night in the playoffs to slow down Dame, PG, Booker, Murray. If they decide the cost is prohibitive then fine... but that's my primary concern if I am Jazz management. They don't project as the same player types at all and I want options on the bench when it comes to playoff time (even if Quin doesn't use them having the options allows us to more fairly judge his coaching ability).

If Mike were out there is nothing that prohibits us from getting Butler and Dunn 15 minutes each. If Butler looks like the second coming of Brogdon and Dunn is healthy then great... you could likely move Dunn again to lower your tax and maybe pick up a second for your trouble... or you make the decision to move on from JC and get something. Adding Dunn does not prohibit a bigger move later... it actually may facilitate that.

Its the same type of fact pattern that led us to not bringing in a vet to block Oni's development... why bring in a vet to play over that guy... Oni had more experience than Butler... and he failed. Then you get in a playoff series when Niang and Oni are garbage and have nothing to turn to. By all accounts they have said they are all in on this year... Dunn is a move consistent with that idea.
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Or Dunn is not healthy or not good and people complain about him playing and clanking shots instead of playing Butler. Then Oni/Brantley signs with another team and he proves to be a much improved player. It's always a win-win if you don't consider the downside.

I don't think Butler's development is misaligned with winning a title...especially because I see this situation as a 2-3 year window. He can help us now, he can really help us in the next 2-3 years. I think he has two way potential which Dunn doesn't have. We didn't have him last year which is why I didn't have this reservation about Dunn.

If Oni worked out, that line of thinking would have been genius. It's not the pattern of thinking that's incorrect, it's the prospect and the guy you're bringing him in to potentially block him. You can just as easily bring in a vet who does nothing. The Jazz brought in Ersan and Matt Thomas and they did nothing. If you're about to say that Ersan and Matt Thomas are not Dunn, sure, but Butler is not Oni.

You're higher on Dunn, cool. If you are, I see why you think it's worth it to bring him in and I don't see the need to keep circling this conversation. I'm not as high on him and rather put a bigger bet on Butler and the other younger guys. I'd rather take the boost to Butler's development and whatever faith I have left in Oni/Brantley. That's all this is. You said verbatim that you didn't want someone to block Butler....I'm not saying this to hold this against you, but surely you must understand that concept of betting on your young players.
 
infection said:
I don’t get the idea of Butler and Dunn competing for minutes. They’re playing completely different roles. At least they should be. Unless Quin makes Dunn the default backup PG, then there should only be a minor overlap in the types of minutes they would compete with each other for. Butler is the new Neto. He can get more minutes off-ball as a shooter. Dunn is a utility guy who’s going to siphon minutes from guys who don’t bring as much on the defensive end (and some of Royce’s minutes so we’re not telling him “hey, you’re the only guy out here doing this for 36 minutes, play hard”). Dunn shaves a couple (just a couple) from JC, from Bojan, from Royce, from Ingles, from Don, from Conley, etc. Then he can get whatever Oni minutes there were. And injuries.
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You're right. If Dunn was on this roster he wouldn't completely block Butler...but positions are fluid. If anyone gets injured, almost anyone can take those minutes because players shift around. Everyone is fighting for the same minutes to some degree.
 
KqWIN said:
Or Dunn is not healthy or not good and people complain about him playing and clanking shots instead of playing Butler. Then Oni/Brantley signs with another team and he proves to be a much improved player. It's always a win-win if you don't consider the downside.

I don't think Butler's development is misaligned with winning a title...especially because I see this situation as a 2-3 year window. He can help us now, he can really help us in the next 2-3 years. I think he has two way potential which Dunn doesn't have. We didn't have him last year which is why I didn't have this reservation about Dunn.

If Oni worked out, that line of thinking would have been genius. It's not the pattern of thinking that's incorrect, it's the prospect and the guy you're bringing him in to potentially block him. You can just as easily bring in a vet who does nothing. The Jazz brought in Ersan and Matt Thomas and they did nothing. If you're about to say that Ersan and Matt Thomas are not Dunn, sure, but Butler is not Oni.

You're higher on Dunn, cool. If you are, I see why you think it's worth it to bring him in and I don't see the need to keep circling this conversation. I'm not as high on him and rather put a bigger bet on Butler and the other younger guys. I'd rather take the boost to Butler's development and whatever faith I have left in Oni/Brantley. That's all this is. You said verbatim that you didn't want someone to block Butler....I'm not saying this to hold this against you, but surely you must understand that concept of betting on your young players.
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Good grief... let's just move on. I'd bet on Butler and Dunn... you can bet on Butler, Oni, and Brantley... I'm 1000% cool with my position there.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Good grief... let's just move on. I'd bet on Butler and Dunn... you can bet on Butler, Oni, and Brantley... I'm 1000% cool with my position there.
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Sounds like we're ready to submit our opinions. Shouldn't Qualtrics be here to survey all of us? Gotta get moving on this stuff.

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HH and Infection getting a boner over another terrible player who absolutely does not fit the team. It's the off-season.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
HH and Infection getting a boner over another terrible player who absolutely does not fit the team. It's the off-season.
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There are actually lots of boners. Just because you can’t see them doesn’t mean you won’t feel them.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
HH and Infection getting a boner over another terrible player who absolutely does not fit the team. It's the off-season.
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I mean I was going to crow about some dude in summer league that had a good game and talk about how smart it makes me look but that corner was already occupied.
 
infection said:
Sounds like we're ready to submit our opinions. Shouldn't Qualtrics be here to survey all of us? Gotta get moving on this stuff.

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I really really don’t think we do anything semi-big until the season starts. Unless Boston moves Dunn to OKC or some team like that I doubt he gets much opportunity to play. The fit with Smart, Schroeder, Richardson, Dunn is pretty clunky.
 
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