LDS church membership statistics

[colton]

When I left my mission I had an interview with my mission president, as all returning missionaries do I believe. He asked me if there was someone special waiting for me at home. I told him not really, but there were a few prospects. He said that it is our duty to multiply and replenish the earth. He said our sacred responsibility was to bring many children directly into the fold born "under the covenant". He told me not to wait, but to immediately start looking for my eternal mate and to begin our family as soon as heavenly father directed her to me (his words).

I then had an interview with a member of the area presidency. They were on-hand as I was one of the first groups of missionaries moved to East Germany to finish out my mission (spent my last year there), and me and another Elder were among the first to leave the mission that was just newly re-opened a year and a half before or so. The area authority, I cannot remember who he was, probably in my journals somewhere, gave me almost exactly the same spiel as my mission president had. That our sacred responsibility was to find our eternal mate, be sealed in the temple and bring children into the fold, so as many of God's children as possible were "born under the convenant". He also said to get married as soon as heavenly father directed my future wife to me, and not to make the mistake, that often leads to grave sin (his words), of waiting and prolonging any relationship that was not blessed in the temple.

Interesting. My experience was very different. As you know, I also served in Germany and got off nearly exactly the same time you did. But my mission president, who actually worked in the missionary department in SLC prior to becoming a mission president, just said "It's not my place to tell you when to get married, but I will tell you WHERE to get married--and that is in the temple."

 

[Deleted member 848]

I would put pizza probably #4 actually, but I am a serious carnivore (real southern BBQ and excellent beef are my #2 and #3). But could you combine pizza and doner into some kind of super food, which would transcend all other foods? Mu-wa-hah-hah-hah!!! <evil grin>

It tastes ****ing amazing. There's also this thing called turkish pizza (Lahmacun I think its called?) which is also delectable.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

My mission president asked if I wanted to talk to him about anything before I left. I told him no and I hope to never see or speak to him again. He asked me to leave and I got up and left. Took us about 30 seconds.

Wait, like you were joking around because you had seen eachother so much for 2 years, or you guys actually didn't like eachother?

 

[LogGrad98]

Interesting. My experience was very different. As you know, I also served in Germany and got off nearly exactly the same time you did. But my mission president, who actually worked in the missionary department in SLC prior to becoming a mission president, just said "It's not my place to tell you when to get married, but I will tell you WHERE to get married--and that is in the temple."

Yeah, I was under your last pres for a few months, I can see him having that approach. I am not trying to say this was official church doctrine, but to hear almost the exact same message from 2 higher up authorities gives some weight to the notion that having bigger families and marrying young are things the church espoused at one point, probably largely right up until the Proclamation on the Family.


Btw, I had 5 mission presidents if you count the MTC.

Pinnegar
Burton
Harper
Paul
Meiser

Wow can't believe I could remember all the names. lol

Of them all Burton was my favorite. Awesome dude. We still keep in touch somewhat.

 

[LogGrad98]

It tastes ****ing amazing. There's also this thing called turkish pizza (Lahmacun I think its called?) which is also delectable.

Just wow. I am speechless. I want one of these right now.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Two things:

#1 many folks are equating "The Church" to Utah culture. Big families are encouraged, promoted, mandated, etc because that is a big part of our culture. It's cheap to live here and unless you're into hunting or winter sports, there's really not anything else to do than to act irresponsibly and mass produce kids (and force those who don't have gigantic families to subsidize you).

Basic economics are changing this already. We are already getting married later and having fewer kids. In fact, I read a report recently that divorce rates have fallen too. I would guess that this is in part due to dating longer, later, having fewer kids, and having more financial stability.

Go to other parts of the country, and suddenly "The Church" doesn't encourage gigantic families. Why? Because we are confusing "the church" with culture. The church focuses on the quality of the family not on quantity.

Of course, the church (literally. Not the culture) isn't blameless. Doctrine of salvation vol.... 2? I think.... Has some stuff written about birth control. While it may have been used by some members as teaching tools I'm not sure if it was ever endorsed by the church as doctrine... Or canon. At least, to my knowledge. Besides, when I read it i got the feeling that the author was targeting those from the counter culture era.

In the end, doctrine of salvation I found to be a lil weird to me. And honestly, I can't imagine god would desire for his children to be born into overburdened or broken families rather than allow the parents to enjoy marriage.

#2 when, where, and how many kids isn't anyone's business. Any mission president, bishop, etc who overextends his authority has been given a stern warning by The Lord in D&C. That's a personal and eternal decision that is not to be messed with by anyone other than the individuals involved. I too have heard stuff about mission presidents mandating that some of their missionaries get married within x amount of time. I question these stories. They were about as prevelent on the mission as hearing stories about the 3 nephites being sited by someone in the mission or about some demon expulsion. But if any are true, lets just remember that mission presidents vary from qualifications to sensitivity. My brother's mission president did countless idiotic things (mandated his missionaries to knock doors on thanksgiving and Christmas.... Limited email to like 1 email/letter to the family per week, and other ridiculous rules). Would it surprise me if this over zealous and quite honestly, ignorant man advised missionaries who to get married to and when? Nope.

Whereas, my mission president (after his first year) rarely made a mistake or idiotic rule. My last interview with him? It's sort of the anti-stereotype. All we talked about was school and career. No mention of marriage. And that's the way it should be IMO.

He's in the q of the 70 now.

 

[LogGrad98]

My last mission pres was a great guy, I loved him a lot in that role. He was always caring, but stern. His was an admonition, not a mandate. He and the area authority, who both were european, said about the same things, but it was along the lines of "don't wait" and "multiply and replenish the earth" kind of stuff, not a "set-a-date" program. I am sure that it influenced my decision somewhat, but I knew I was going to marry this girl after our first date, we just hit it off, but if I had it to do over again I think I would still extend out the time-tables somewhat.

I have encouraged my kids to wait until they are out of school to start their families, or into their careers a few years. Also to wait until they have been married a few years before having kids so they can get to know each other and have some good memories with their new spouse under conditions of less responsibility. Then when they are more emotionally mature and secure in their lives to start adding children.

Of course kids don't do what you suggest anyway, but that is another story.

 

[LogGrad98]

Whereas, my mission president (after his first year) rarely made a mistake or idiotic rule. My last interview with him? It's sort of the anti-stereotype. All we talked about was school and career. No mention of marriage. And that's the way it should be IMO.

He's in the q of the 70 now.

I agree that is how it should be.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Also, in today's age, no one should ask about having kids.

I remember this old lady in my home ward growing up. Her schtick was to act obnoxious and do Sunday school introductions. She attempted to be the Betty White of the ward. Anyway, a new couple had barely moved in. One of the first things she asked IN FRONT of everyone, "wait you've been married for 2 years and no kids?"

I remember, I looked at my parents and we rolled our eyes. Ol Betty White did it again! This wouldn't have happened in my bros ward in the northeast. Doubt it would have happened in my friend's ward in Cali. Heck, I don't think it would even happen innBrazil, where there aren't any limits to what people do or say!


What if that couple had been trying? What if one of them had kids from a previous marriage and just weren't ready? What if they simply couldn't afford it? He was a cop who worked midnight shifts and she worked on the phones for a telemarketing company.

It's easy for me to tell them to just have more faith. But in the end, I'm not in their shoes. That's an issue they need to decide on.

 

[babe]

I recall an LDS prophet telling members to not put off having a family before you were financially fit to do so. The advice was to have children right away, and let the Lord worry about taking care of them while you go to school, etc.

I do not recall exactly who it was nor do I care to get into an argument on it, but there you have it if you want to investigate further.

Your memory is factual on this point. You can still find an occasional authoritative comment in this direction if you'll go looking for it personally, but the correlation committee has been editing them out of conference talks and publications. . .

There is no end to the stupidity of human beings, either in giving advice or trying to follow advice. Or criticizing advice.

When it comes to "advice" there is always an assumed context. You can make any advice scandalously stupid if you can just pull out one or two elements of the context. This particular item of advice assumes the virtues of being willing to work for a worthwhile goal, and the availability of jobs or else the intelligence to create a demand for your services when no one else will hire you. It assumes good health, perhaps. . . a lot of other stuff.

However it makes no assumptions about the commandment given in Genesis about the imperative and priority of procreation for mankind, nor about the value of human beings. . ..errrrrr.. . . kids.

I don't think little old ladies with brazen expressions of how we should value children are offensive. I'm pretty sure I did my time enduring criticism for not having kids while active in the LDS church, and more than a hundred little old ladies said stuff like that while looking at me and my wife. Sure someone might take offense if they want. I'm not in the business of just saying stuff that nobody could take offense at. Just not ready to shut up, yet.

The one thing none of us can get around is that God sees us for what we are. . . .. and has tried to point us towards the things that will be best in the long run. This world, or the LDS church, is not the place of eternal rest or idyllic perfection. This life is the chance we have to make a better account of ourselves. It is, and should be, and always will be best if people are willing to make personal sacrifices in this life in an effort to do things that are of enduring or eternal value.

I have complained to God on some occasions about how my efforts to follow casual advice, well-intended perhaps, from people who felt to invoke the mantle or authority of God for what they "promised", when it appeared in the aftermath that God didn't hold Himself accountable for human advisors, but His answer to me has been to look at myself and understand what was wrong in me. Not the platitudes/promises/advice/ideal. If I was 21 again, landing on my feet after my mission, I'd go get married inside of six months, and try to have some kids. . . . that would have been my best chance to do it. Yeah, I had some kids a lot later, but it took everything medical science could offer, plus a couple of miracles from God to do it.

 

[Stoked]

Wait, like you were joking around because you had seen eachother so much for 2 years, or you guys actually didn't like eachother?

I was completely serious. I thought he was a narrow minded, petty little man and I actively disliked him. We had history and did not play well together.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

I was completely serious. I thought he was a narrow minded, petty little man and I actively disliked him. We had history and did not play well together.

Interesting. Because when you see a photo album of somebody's mission or something, it's usually replete with photos of them looking all lovey dovey with their MPs. And they'll be Facebook friends with them after and talk about future reuions and everything. My brother's even stayed at our house when I was little a few times when they would come to Utah.

So what is that relationship typically like on a mission? How often do you seem them/check in with them or whatever?