LDS General Conference Fall 2015

[Stoked]

When I say I have major issues with mormon culture, this is what I'm talking about.

I had this convo with some family, during a discussion about my disappointment with the new apostles, and I mentioned that the Lord wants us to do or own work in addition to going to him. That I started the discussion in that light and that I wanted their opinions to see if there was something I had not considered.

ANd the majority of them acted like I was preaching heresy... what ever happened to personal accountability and a desire to seek the truth? ARe we not taught to study, discuss and ponder in addition to praying and asking the Lord.

 

[Bronco70]

I had this convo with some family, during a discussion about my disappointment with the new apostles, and I mentioned that the Lord wants us to do or own work in addition to going to him. That I started the discussion in that light and that I wanted their opinions to see if there was something I had not considered.

ANd the majority of them acted like I was preaching heresy... what ever happened to personal accountability and a desire to seek the truth? ARe we not taught to study, discuss and ponder in addition to praying and asking the Lord.

Intended or not, one of the strongest messages the church (the membership, specifically, not the gospel itself) conveys is to never question church authority. In my adult life, I've never been comfortable with how many members will forfeit understanding "why" just so they don't feel like they're losing faith. I fully believe in having faith, but I don't believe God operates on the classic parenting strategy of "because I said so". In my experience, leaders such as bishops are not as judgmental about people with questions, but the general membership can be excruciatingly so. But I guess that's part of what you were getting at, Stoked...

 

[colton]

Intended or not, one of the strongest messages the church (the membership, specifically, not the gospel itself) conveys is to never question church authority. In my adult life, I've never been comfortable with how many members will forfeit understanding "why" just so they don't feel like they're losing faith. I fully believe in having faith, but I don't believe God operates on the classic parenting strategy of "because I said so". In my experience, leaders such as bishops are not as judgmental about people with questions, but the general membership can be excruciatingly so. But I guess that's part of what you were getting at, Stoked...

I agree with much of this. But I will say it's also VERY location dependent. That type of thing is much worse here in Utah than it was in anywhere else I've lived, namely California, Maryland, and Wisconsin.

 

[Stoked]

Intended or not, one of the strongest messages the church (the membership, specifically, not the gospel itself) conveys is to never question church authority. In my adult life, I've never been comfortable with how many members will forfeit understanding "why" just so they don't feel like they're losing faith. I fully believe in having faith, but I don't believe God operates on the classic parenting strategy of "because I said so". In my experience, leaders such as bishops are not as judgmental about people with questions, but the general membership can be excruciatingly so. But I guess that's part of what you were getting at, Stoked...

Yes, the average member. Not leadership.

 

[Stoked]

I agree with much of this. But I will say it's also VERY location dependent. That type of thing is much worse here in Utah than it was in anywhere else I've lived, namely California, Maryland, and Wisconsin.

Oh absolutely. The members I knew in the Memphis and Honduras are no where even in the ball park of this.

 

[VINYLONE]

That type of thing is much worse here in Utah than it was in anywhere else I've lived, namely California, Maryland, and Wisconsin.

I'm interested to know why YOU think that is?

Also, did you see my post regarding Mr. U's address? I didn't want you to miss that.

 

[Stoked]

I'm interested to know why YOU think that is?

Also, did you see my post regarding Mr. U's address? I didn't want you to miss that.

Something I think plays into it is a case of the Keeping Up With The Joneses. In Utah it is majority Mormon so everyone is a member. So members try to out mormon each other and things get cliquish and judgemental.

 

[Bronco70]

I agree with much of this. But I will say it's also VERY location dependent. That type of thing is much worse here in Utah than it was in anywhere else I've lived, namely California, Maryland, and Wisconsin.

Utah Mormons are the worst.

 

[♪alt13]

Utah Mormons are the worst.

Amongst mormons but are they really worse than say southern baptists? I don't think so.

 

[Bronco70]

Oh absolutely. The members I knew in the Memphis and Honduras are no where even in the ball park of this.

I'm generalizing, of course, but outside of Utah, my limited experience has been that Mormons appreciate other Mormons more. In Utah you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one. Elsewhere, it's a bond. It's special being in the club, unless everyone is in the club.

 

[Stoked]

Amongst mormons but are they really worse than say southern baptists? I don't think so.

Growing up in Memphis and going to high school there in the mid to late 90s was the worst. It was extremely anti mormon at the time and I had some bad experiences. Public ridicule, physical assault, denied entrance to school clubs, insults, astounding ignorance (was asked multiple times by people where my horns were and they sincerely wanted to know) and betrayal...the root cause of all this was various pastors in the Southern Baptist religion. They made a living of of anti-mormon rhetoric.

 

[colton]

So I'm assuming all those disagreeing with the moves don't believe these apostles were divinely chosen? Or are apostles divinely chosen? I'm not very familiar with the process. Thanks.

I think "disagreeing with" is much too strong a word. I didn't see anyone raise their hand to object to the calls, after all. "Disappointed with" might be closer to the mark, or the phrase "lost opportunity" also comes to mind. But the vast majority of those who were a bit disappointed still believe that Pres. Monson received inspiration in the calls and that those gentlemen have been chosen and appointed by the Lord.

 

[colton]

While racial diversity is not the only kind of diversity, it still does not make up for the fact that people if color in the lds church are lacking visible role models.

I think that's a good way of putting it, and why I myself was a little disappointed. That being said, and as my last post indicated, I still sustain the new apostles and think they will do a great job. I'm pretty impressed with all three of them, actually, from what I've read and otherwise know about them.

 

[colton]

Is this a nature vs nurture argument? Elder Gong was born in California, is Asian, and is the newest member of the Presidency of the Seventy. Does being Asian make him more of a role model? I don't think so. I look up to people for much different reasons than race or ethnicity. Role models should be based on the character of the role model. I do get what you are saying, and there is a natural tendency to view people of our own race or ethnicity as a better role model. I don't think it's right but I understand the tendency to do so.

In opposition to the argument that the church is passing up an opportunity to put people of a certain race or role model into the Quorum of the Twelve based solely on that classification, I think people may be passing up an opportunity to see the people called for who they are and gain an understanding of why they were called... to gain a testimony of why they were called. The newest called members of the Twelve should not categorically be dismissed as the best people to be called because they are white in skin color.

I think that's also a good way of putting things.

 

[b_line]

I think that's a good way of putting it, and why I myself was a little disappointed. That being said, and as my last post indicated, I still sustain the new apostles and think they will do a great job. I'm pretty impressed with all three of them, actually, from what I've read and otherwise know about them.

Exactly how I feel. Great guys who will do great, homogenous things.

 

[colton]

I had this convo with some family, during a discussion about my disappointment with the new apostles, and I mentioned that the Lord wants us to do or own work in addition to going to him. That I started the discussion in that light and that I wanted their opinions to see if there was something I had not considered.

ANd the majority of them acted like I was preaching heresy... what ever happened to personal accountability and a desire to seek the truth? ARe we not taught to study, discuss and ponder in addition to praying and asking the Lord.

Sounds like you're with Brother Brigham (and me) on this one: "the greatest fear I have is that the people of this Church will accept what we say as the will of the Lord without first praying about it and getting the witness within their own hearts that what we say is the word of the Lord"

 

[fishonjazz]

Intended or not, one of the strongest messages the church (the membership, specifically, not the gospel itself) conveys is to never question church authority. In my adult life, I've never been comfortable with how many members will forfeit understanding "why" just so they don't feel like they're losing faith. I fully believe in having faith, but I don't believe God operates on the classic parenting strategy of "because I said so". In my experience, leaders such as bishops are not as judgmental about people with questions, but the general membership can be excruciatingly so. But I guess that's part of what you were getting at, Stoked...

So along those lines I have a serious question for everyone.

Why are "bad words" bad words?
I mean they all come from the same alphabet right? Why is **** a bad word but poop, feces, crap, dang, shoot, etc not bad words?
There is not a list of bad words in the scriptures is there?

Also, is there anywhere in scriptures that says not to smoke pot?
I remember a bible verse that says that God has given us the seed bearing plants and herbs to use. (I think I heard it in a cyprus hill song called hits from the bong)

 

[colton]

That type of thing is much worse here in Utah than it was in anywhere else I've lived, namely California, Maryland, and Wisconsin.

I'm interested to know why YOU think that is?

I think it has to do with people confusing culture with doctrine, which is likely human nature for a majority religion.

Also, did you see my post regarding Mr. U's address? I didn't want you to miss that.

Yes, just didn't reply to it. I really respect you for going to the source to learn about what Mormons believe/are taught, as opposed to relying on secondary websites which may or may not be accurate. Glad part of his talk was meaningful to you.

 

[fishonjazz]

Something I think plays into it is a case of the Keeping Up With The Joneses. In Utah it is majority Mormon so everyone is a member. So members try to out mormon each other and things get cliquish and judgemental.

Good answer

 

[colton]

Growing up in Memphis and going to high school there in the mid to late 90s was the worst. It was extremely anti mormon at the time and I had some bad experiences. Public ridicule, physical assault, denied entrance to school clubs, insults, astounding ignorance (was asked multiple times by people where my horns were and they sincerely wanted to know) and betrayal...the root cause of all this was various pastors in the Southern Baptist religion. They made a living of of anti-mormon rhetoric.

Sad. Bet it makes you sympathize with nonLDS people in Utah, though. And helps one understand why we're continually getting conference addresses telling us NOT to treat our neighbors like that. (Sad that such addresses are necessary.)