LDS issued statement on recent court ruling
- Thread starter JGolds
- Start date
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?16946-DOMA-and-Prop-8-bite-the-dust
Yeah that quote was posted on like page 1.
Yeah that quote was posted on like page 1.
Hypothetical: If the white vote in the land all got together and decided that we wanted to have segregated toilets again, would you vote for it? How about if all people with naturally brown or black hair decided that they were the master race, and the US belonged to them and no one else, would you vote to boot everyone else out? How about if all the middle and lower class people voted to confiscate the lands and property of the upper class, and divide it up equally amongst the middle?
You speak of popular vote as if that should be law. But that can be very dangerous. Where's the line that says "We're hurting other people. We shouldn't be allowed to do this."? Are you seriously going to tell me that we as Americans can honestly choose that for ourselves? Really? In 1964 congress recognized the link between cancer and tobacco, has killed or had a direct link in killing 440,000 people a year, and it's STILL legal.
To me, the line that has to stop us is not when we judge another people's ideas/way of life, but when we outlaw that way of life even though it causes no harm.
Why?
Sneakers
Well-Known Member
I'm just kidding. Or better put, I'm not kidding but I'm not trying to be antagonistic. It's just where I fall on this issue. I'm not going to convince anyone here to change their mind, so I won't bother besides my $.02
scootsy
Well-Known Member
your $.02 is that those who vocally disagree with you are douches because of it?
Sneakers
Well-Known Member
I think the opinion that they have is a douchey opinion.
This ruling spits in the face of this country's silent majority, and it is an obvious violation of the democratic principles that made it great. Unless the majority agrees with the ruling, in which case the ruling is a demonstration of the tyranny of the majority that the Founders warned us about, and a perfect example of the dangers of mob rule.
green
Well-Known Member
I HATE arguments like this. You have two options:
1 - Go to a dictator/monarchy and hope the ruler that makes all the rules is ethical/moral/the countries best interest at heart.
2 - Rely on the popular vote and hope that they general population is moral/ethical/has the countries best interest at heart.
Time has shown that this country will do the right thing. We don't need the judicial arm telling us what is right and wrong. That is where Sotomeyer and other left wing liberals are just wrong. The general population in this country is good and will do/vote for the right thing.
They aren't idiots. Maybe if things like Prop 8 are being passed and outlawing gay marriage, instead of demonizing everyone and turning the issue into a TMZ segment, why don't we all calm down, sit down and realize what each side wants. I bet if a civil discussion could be had, we would find out that we all want about 95% of the same thing. Then we can all work together on that last 5%.
But that wouldn't drive ratings on a 24 hour news station, or deflect attention from a terrible job a politician is doing.
p.s. I am for civil unions. I don't get why you wouldn't want those things. Also, the smoking argument is stupid. Sorry. You can't outlaw everything. You have to let people be free to choose what they want to do (this goes for food, businesses, sexual preferences, etc). All these "food" laws are beyond stupid. Instead of trying to force everyone to be healthy, quit giving them food stamps that allow them to buy junk food. Problem solved, no laws passed (but this wouldn't work because democrats would lose votes).
I am not trying to pick a fight or anything. I simply wanted to know what parts of that statement you find douchy? I am pro gay marriage and there are parts of it I agree with. Such as: "...marriage between a man and a woman, which for thousands of years has proven to be the best environment for nurturing children..."
Sneakers
Well-Known Member
You understand the role the Constitution and the Bill of Rights plays into all this, right? Majority rule has NEVER been part of the U.S. system. Never.
candrew
Well-Known Member
A vote from 5 years ago on a issue that almost every survey has shown people are becoming rapidly tolerant towards.
https://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-poll-gay-marriage-20130610,0,6776707.story
According to the latest survey Californians now favor gay marriage 58-36
JGolds
Well-Known Member
“A man who has never gone to school may steal a freight car; but if he has a university education, he may steal the whole railroad.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
“The Supreme Court has ruled that they cannot have a nativity scene in Washington, D.C. This wasn't for any religious reasons. They couldn't find three wise men and a virgin.”
― Jay Leno
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself."
John Adams
"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."
Charles Carroll, signer of the Declaration of Independence
"Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
Benjamin Franklin
"I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God Governs the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"
Benjamin Franklin
"Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature."
Benjamin Franklin
"Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants."
Benjamin Franklin
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
Patrick Henry
"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."
Patrick Henry
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
Patrick Henry
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." Thomas Jefferson
I am done.. I just felt a need to post some quotes......
― Theodore Roosevelt
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
“The Supreme Court has ruled that they cannot have a nativity scene in Washington, D.C. This wasn't for any religious reasons. They couldn't find three wise men and a virgin.”
― Jay Leno
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself."
John Adams
"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."
Charles Carroll, signer of the Declaration of Independence
"Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
Benjamin Franklin
"I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God Governs the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"
Benjamin Franklin
"Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature."
Benjamin Franklin
"Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants."
Benjamin Franklin
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
Patrick Henry
"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."
Patrick Henry
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
Patrick Henry
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." Thomas Jefferson
I am done.. I just felt a need to post some quotes......
scootsy
Well-Known Member
trying to decipher the meaning of this quote considering thomas jefferson was a deist.
It took this country from from 1776 to 1863 to abolish slavery. Although African Americans were here after that, it wasn't until the civil rights act of 1964 that we passed law banning discrimination based on sex, color, etc. We raped the natives of their land from the moment we got here. In 1851, congress passed a law giving land to American Natives in Oklahoma, the first reservation, not as a peace offering, but a place to keep existing unwanted persons. They still don't have their land back.
I don't have the faith you do in us doing the right thing. I really wish I could, but I just keep coming to the same conclusion: Historically, we've been real pricks. And the times we haven't been, we've dragged our feet.
Now, as far as a civil union goes, lets do this. Every religion out there can be entitled to their own version of "marriage". Turn that into a religious thing. But the benefits, discounts, and penalties awarded to "married" couples, lets only give to those entered into civil unions.
Julie Greengiant
Well-Known Member
They are part of a system of checks and balances in which their job is to rule whether something is unconstitutional or not.