Let’s try another angle: Biden vs TrumpISM

NAOS

Well-Known Member
Somehow there are a lot of undecided voters. And somehow there are a lot of people who don’t like Trump but are too pure to vote for Biden (if the problem is posed as a Biden-v-Trump proposition).

This election is clearly first-and-foremost a referendum on Trump. But what exactly does that mean? Have these undecideds and too-pure voters realized that a wave of first-time dem voters would send a strong signal not just against Trump the person, but against Trumpism?

I understand the desire to protest with your vote. But I also understand I have to work within the specific limitations of our two-party system when I try to communicate something with a protest vote. This year, the waters are too muddy to communicate clearly with a third-party vote; and, over and above all of those other protest, the biggest fish to fry—protest-style—is Trumpism.

Think Trumpism, not just Trump.
 

rare144

Well-Known Member
I would have voted for Tulsi.

The Dems deserve to crash with Trump since they help get him elected. They prefer to crash the country to increase their odds in next election. Dems treated Tulsi like the GOP treated Ron Paul, the bigs wigs of both parties view them as enemies since they are real honest good people. Politics is full of selfish people posing as "whatever works"
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
Replacing one empty headed pro Russia wannabe autocrat with another, like Tulsi, wouldn’t be an improvement.
 

Avery

Well-Known Member
Tulsi may have done better in a smaller field, but cozying up to Assad and Russia made her too much of a hawk and an easy target. Dissing Obama for years on Fox News didn't help expand her base either.
 

NAOS

Well-Known Member
I would have voted for Tulsi.

The Dems deserve to crash with Trump since they help get him elected. They prefer to crash the country to increase their odds in next election. Dems treated Tulsi like the GOP treated Ron Paul, the bigs wigs of both parties view them as enemies since they are real honest good people. Politics is full of selfish people posing as "whatever works"
just lol at this
 

Gameface

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I would have voted for Tulsi.

The Dems deserve to crash with Trump since they help get him elected. They prefer to crash the country to increase their odds in next election. Dems treated Tulsi like the GOP treated Ron Paul, the bigs wigs of both parties view them as enemies since they are real honest good people. Politics is full of selfish people posing as "whatever works"
Yeah, and I'd vote for the Republican if it was Nikki Haley or Mitt Romney or Colin Powell or Condoleezza Rice. But for some weird reason I can only vote for the person the party nominates.

This idea that if some super obscure person from a party you don't identify with would have been nominated because they appeal to you, as a member of the other party, then you'd vote for someone from that party is kind of pointless.

The Democrats don't have to appeal to Trump supporters and hard core Republicans to win. In fact, they would have ZERO chance if they did that. Tulsi would have been destroyed in the general, had she not already gotten handily defeated in the primary. She never had even sort of a legit chance. But sure, appearing on FOX News to trash Obama has endeared her to some Republican voters. Whoopty ****ing Doo.
 

infection

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Yeah, and I'd vote for the Republican if it was Nikki Haley or Mitt Romney or Colin Powell or Condoleezza Rice. But for some weird reason I can only vote for the person the party nominates.

This idea that if some super obscure person from a party you don't identify with would have been nominated because they appeal to you, as a member of the other party, then you'd vote for someone from that party is kind of pointless.

The Democrats don't have to appeal to Trump supporters and hard core Republicans to win. In fact, they would have ZERO chance if they did that. Tulsi would have been destroyed in the general, had she not already gotten handily defeated in the primary. She never had even sort of a legit chance. But sure, appearing on FOX News to trash Obama has endeared her to some Republican voters. Whoopty ****ing Doo.
With all due respect, I don't believe this addresses anything that rare said.
 

Gameface

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With all due respect, I don't believe this addresses anything that rare said.
I addressed his "I would have voted for Tulsi." I probably stopped reading after that.

Look, I have no doubt that the DNC is perfectly happy that COVID-19 is one, showing Trump's massive incompetence and two, that it has plunged the economy since that was Trump's singular argument for reelection.

But "the Dems' didn't cause COVID-19 as some nefarious plot to take back the White House. The majority of the world is doing the things we've been doing and Trump isn't running in all those countries. So this is not some thing the Dems are doing to the U.S., this is a thing smart people are doing everywhere. And if Trump would have not been a narcissistic POS and cared about the health and welfare of the people he represents he would have embraced measures that could have made this pandemic better and we'd be in recovery mode right now instead of plunging further into the pandemic.
 

infection

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I addressed his "I would have voted for Tulsi." I probably stopped reading after that.

Look, I have no doubt that the DNC is perfectly happy that COVID-19 is one, showing Trump's massive incompetence and two, that it has plunged the economy since that was Trump's singular argument for reelection.

But "the Dems' didn't cause COVID-19 as some nefarious plot to take back the White House. The majority of the world is doing the things we've been doing and Trump isn't running in all those countries. So this is not some thing the Dems are doing to the U.S., this is a thing smart people are doing everywhere. And if Trump would have not been a narcissistic POS and cared about the health and welfare of the people he represents he would have embraced measures that could have made this pandemic better and we'd be in recovery mode right now instead of plunging further into the pandemic.
With all due respect, I don’t believe this addresses anything I said (or rare, for that matter).
 

Gameface

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With all due respect, I don’t believe this addresses anything I said (or rare, for that matter).
WTF do you think he said that needs to be addressed?

****ing hell, it's my response, take it or leave it. You haven't addressed anything I've said, and that's perfectly okay because none of us are obligated to address everything we read and/or respond to.
 

infection

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WTF do you think he said that needs to be addressed?

****ing hell, it's my response, take it or leave it. You haven't addressed anything I've said, and that's perfectly okay because none of us are obligated to address everything we read and/or respond to.
I don’t think you have to address anything he’s said. I’m just stating that what you’ve said isn’t at all connected to what you were responding to. Nor your response to what I said. And you’re free to take that or leave that.
 

Gameface

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I don’t think you have to address anything he’s said. I’m just stating that what you’ve said isn’t at all connected to what you were responding to. Nor your response to what I said. And you’re free to take that or leave that.
Not sure what I missed, so I guess I'll leave it.

At any point you could have added info to make what you were saying clear, but obviously being clear and having a conversation wasn't your point.
 

Red

Well-Known Member
John Feffer: what will it take to defeat Trumpism?


“While Trump may be expendable, Trumpism -- which lies at the intersections of racial and sexual anxiety, hatred of government and the expert class, and opposition to cosmopolitan internationalism -- is not so easily rooted out. Drawing heavily on American traditions of Know-Nothing-ism, America-First-ism, and Goldwater Republicanism, Trump’s essential worldview will survive the 2020 election.”
 

infection

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2019 Award Winner
Not sure what I missed, so I guess I'll leave it.

At any point you could have added info to make what you were saying clear, but obviously being clear and having a conversation wasn't your point.
I don’t know what I could make more clear. You were responding with frustration with rare and responding to many issues that he didn’t address or imply. I was politely suggesting that perhaps what you were responding with wasn’t much connected to what was said. They’re fine points to make, just not necessarily specific to anything he said (or anything I said when you responded to me). That’s all.
 

Gameface

Black Lives Matter
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
I don’t know what I could make more clear. You were responding with frustration with rare and responding to many issues that he didn’t address or imply. I was politely suggesting that perhaps what you were responding with wasn’t much connected to what was said. They’re fine points to make, just not necessarily specific to anything he said (or anything I said when you responded to me). That’s all.
Dude, I've made clear I'm not sure what you think I didn't respond to. Your post above could be a lot shorter if all you did was explain what I didn't respond to. But again, that's not what you're doing here. That's not the point of your "with all due respect" posts to me. You're involved in a conversation but you're not interested in having the conversation you started. So clearly your interest lies in something else that you're trying to be clever about by implying without having the guts to say.
 

idestroyedthetoilet

Well-Known Member
Somehow there are a lot of undecided voters. And somehow there are a lot of people who don’t like Trump but are too pure to vote for Biden (if the problem is posed as a Biden-v-Trump proposition).

This election is clearly first-and-foremost a referendum on Trump. But what exactly does that mean? Have these undecideds and too-pure voters realized that a wave of first-time dem voters would send a strong signal not just against Trump the person, but against Trumpism?

I understand the desire to protest with your vote. But I also understand I have to work within the specific limitations of our two-party system when I try to communicate something with a protest vote. This year, the waters are too muddy to communicate clearly with a third-party vote; and, over and above all of those other protest, the biggest fish to fry—protest-style—is Trumpism.

Think Trumpism, not just Trump.
Trump was and is a protest vote.
 
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