Lockout!!!

[trigg3r]

Well, if the players theoretically agreed to the owners current proposal before the deadline they gave them, then the owners pulled that deal back when the players agreed to it. Wouldn't that be considered negotiating in bad faith, or something along those lines? Wouldn't that help the players if it when down the legal procedure road?

Probably. I don't see the owners changing the offer before the deadline though. If it eventually gets to the deadline and the players still won't accept the offer then we might as well kiss the season goodbye. I don't think there is any way the players accept 47%. At that point, the season should probably just be cancelled so that they can put us fans out of our misery.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

We need our young guys to develop no doubt and no season will hurt that but losing a season also means the Spurs, Lakers, and Mavs are a year older and closer to AARP membership. Not so bad.

Really what we need is Millsap or Hayward or Jefferson to grab the reins, and get these guys together for practices, workouts, scrimmages and such. I think we have just nine under contract per se but see no reason someone like Watson couldn't or wouldn't participate in such to get it to 10. This would be huge, HUGE, in not only the development of the players but the chemistry and camaraderie of the guys as well so that when things do resume, everyone's not a stranger to each other.

 

[Revolution 9]

We need our young guys to develop no doubt and no season will hurt that but losing a season also means the Spurs, Lakers, and Mavs are a year older and closer to AARP membership. Not so bad.

Really what we need is Millsap or Hayward or Jefferson to grab the reins, and get these guys together for practices, workouts, scrimmages and such. I think we have just nine under contract per se but see no reason someone like Watson couldn't or wouldn't participate in such to get it to 10. This would be huge, HUGE, in not only the development of the players but the chemistry and camaraderie of the guys as well so that when things do resume, everyone's not a stranger to each other.

This is all true. We need these players to not only get to know each other better, improve themselves, but also learn Corbin's system. A whole year off could really
send things in so many ways. I think it's better for all of us to check out of this year emotionally. I think I've given up all hope now, but I know it's
not really over until Wed.

 

[Zulu]

Really what we need is Millsap or Hayward or Jefferson to grab the reins, and get these guys together for practices, workouts, scrimmages and such. I think we have just nine under contract per se but see no reason someone like Watson couldn't or wouldn't participate in such to get it to 10. This would be huge, HUGE, in not only the development of the players but the chemistry and camaraderie of the guys as well so that when things do resume, everyone's not a stranger to each other.

This would be awesome if this happened. Just like what Drew Brees did with the saints during the NFL lockout. The only problem is that Jefferson and Milsap don't know what system Corbin is going to use. But it would still be benificial IMO!

 

[moevillini]

I'm bummed. I really would like to see this settled before the end of 2011.

I don't really understand the details of any of the proposals enough to say I'm on the side of the players OR the owners, though I do feel the owners have a "bigger picture" perspective than the players. But in some ways I feel like maybe this is comparable to the housing bubble - and the players are still thinking more in terms of the "gravy train" of the expired CBA and aren't quite able to adjust their thinking to the realities of the current global economic situation.


someone had a great twitter quote about the possible decertification vote, and compared the players' understanding of the issue to college students who had partied the whole semester and now were trying to pull an all-nighter to cram for their final exams

 

[carolinajazz]

But in some ways I feel like maybe this is comparable to the housing bubble - and the players are still thinking more in terms of the "gravy train" of the expired CBA and aren't quite able to adjust their thinking to the realities of the current global economic situation.

....interesting observation! Of course, then there's mine: Owners are tired of supporting the extravagant lifestyle of punks, pukes and thugs!

Someone had a great twitter quote about the possible decertification vote, and compared the players' understanding of the issue to college students who had partied the whole semester and now were trying to pull an all-nighter to cram for their final exams

.....another good observation! But then, these NBA guys were never much on thinkin...spent most of there time chasing women and drinkin!


True dat!

 

[jope]

spent most of there time chasing women and drinkin!

isn't that what the vast majority of men in their 20's do?

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

We need our young guys to develop no doubt and no season will hurt that but losing a season also means the Spurs, Lakers, and Mavs are a year older and closer to AARP membership. Not so bad.

Really what we need is Millsap or Hayward or Jefferson to grab the reins, and get these guys together for practices, workouts, scrimmages and such. I think we have just nine under contract per se but see no reason someone like Watson couldn't or wouldn't participate in such to get it to 10. This would be huge, HUGE, in not only the development of the players but the chemistry and camaraderie of the guys as well so that when things do resume, everyone's not a stranger to each other.

I doubt anyone is going to be motivated right now to put in extra work when they aren't getting paid and they aren't getting the CBA deal that they want.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This would be awesome if this happened. Just like what Drew Brees did with the saints during the NFL lockout. The only problem is that Jefferson and Milsap don't know what system Corbin is going to use. But it would still be benificial IMO!

I think something like that is probably happening to an extent. Burks and Hayward have obviously been hanging out, playing ball, and working out together at times. Many of the Jazz players workout at P3, I assume they there at similar times, so they also probably play pickup games together.

 

[green]

They were talking on the radio and they were saying that Evans said he is ready to take the deal and play (of course), but the interesting thing was, they said Kobe wants to take the deal and play. Anyone else heard that? If they are not only losing support from the low level guys, but players like Kobe as well, then we may have a season on Wednesday after all.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Can someone explain to me why they believe the owners when having no substantiated evidence of these supposed losses?

To refresh, the NBA made more money than it ever has last year, and paid the smallest percent of that to players (at least in the last 13 years where everything seemed peachy for most of those years). These are the facts that we have. That, and that the salary cap goes up every year (a point that ties into the initial one in the paragraph). And let's also remember that this is a lockout and not a strike.

So, establishmentarians, why do you believe the owners claims with no real evidence?

 

[sirkickyass]

They were talking on the radio and they were saying that Evans said he is ready to take the deal and play (of course), but the interesting thing was, they said Kobe wants to take the deal and play. Anyone else heard that? If they are not only losing support from the low level guys, but players like Kobe as well, then we may have a season on Wednesday after all.

Here's a very good summary of the NBA's current proposal: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/...o-union-stern-details-his-ultimatum.html?_r=1

The N.B.A.’s current proposal to the players includes a soft salary cap, a 50 percent share of revenues for players and these features:

¶ Salary-cap and luxury-tax levels in Years 1 and 2 of the new agreement will be no less than they were in 2010-11. By Year 3, they will be adjusted downward to conform to the new system.

¶ Sign-and-trade deals and the biannual exception will be available only to nontaxpaying teams.

¶ Extend-and-trade deals, such as the one signed by Carmelo Anthony last season, will be prohibited.

¶ The midlevel exception will be set at $5 million for nontaxpaying teams, with a maximum length between three and four years (alternating annually). The value of the exception will grow by 3 percent annually, starting in Year 3.

¶ The midlevel exception will be set at $2.5 million for taxpaying teams, with a maximum length of two years, and cannot be used in consecutive years. Its value will also grow at 3 percent annually.

¶ A 10 percent escrow tax will be withheld from player salaries, to ensure that player earnings do not exceed 50 percent of league revenues. An additional withholding will be applied in Year 1 “to account for business uncertainty” stemming from the lockout.

¶ Maximum contract lengths will be five years for “Bird” free agents and four years for others.

¶ Annual contract increases will be 5.5 percent for “Bird” players and 3.5 percent for others.

¶ Players will be paid a prorated share of their 2011-12 salaries, based on the number of games played once the season starts.

¶ Team and player contract options will be prohibited in new contracts, other than rookie deals. But a player can opt out of the final year of a contract if he agrees to zero salary protection (i.e., if it is nonguaranteed).

Viewed through that lens, players who only have 1-2 great years at high pay remaining are going to be pushing for the deal.

Before we get another round of "the greedy players blah blah jailhouse tats" on this board it's worth noting that every provision of the proposed deal is worse for players than the system was last season. They will make significantly less money (what amounts to a 12.2% pay cut), have less latitude to determine where they play, have more money withheld for escrow, receive smaller raises, and receive fewer contract guarantees. In exchange they make no tangible gains. It is not hard to understand why they have a toxic reaction to the proposal, even if it represents a practical reality.

If the players don't agree then the league will default to a reset option which is described as follows:

The “reset” proposal features a flex-cap system that contains an absolute salary ceiling — to be set $5 million above the average team salary. In addition, the N.B.A. would roll back existing contracts “in proportion to system changes in order to ensure sufficient market for free agents.”

The other major differences in the “reset” proposal are:

¶ The midlevel exception would be set at $3 million in Year 1, with a maximum length of three years, and would grow at 3 percent annually.

¶ Maximum salaries would be reduced.

¶ Sign-and-trade rules would remain consistent with the 2005 labor deal.

¶ Contracts would be limited to four years for “Bird” free agents and three years for others, but each team could give a five-year deal to one designated player.

¶ Raises would be limited to 4.5 percent for “Bird” players and 3.5 percent for others.

¶ Changes requested by the union on restricted free agency rules and salary-cap holds would not be included.