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Lockout!!!

Also, if the NFL is willing to lockout, that tells you a lot about ownership simply trying to get every cent they can. Same with players. That's what this is all about. There are no saints, and there are only victims.
 
zman1527 said:
Hah, so Greg ought to just sign up anyone who will play for free. He ought to just open up for pickup games. Sell tickets and then the first ten guys who want to play can go shirts and skins. That will drive down ticket prices, I guarantee it! LOL.

Making more than they "ought" to make? How do you decide that? The league brings in a boatload of money to have these players play basketball so why should they not get a goodly share of that revenue.

I will make you a bet. You take the Jazz franchise, arena, management etc and I get the players. I will put games on in local gyms like the U. You can have the ES Center and the East High boys team. Bet I can charge more and get more people to my games.
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They should get a good share of the revenue. But not a majority. Right now they get a majority. They get a majority of the income with having little to no other expenses come out of their share.

And no Greg should not get people to play for free. The league should do what they are doing. Play hardball with the players and break them. The lower income players in the league are going to hurt for money eventually. If your employees are making more than they are worth then you lower their salary or find replacements. I would not be opposed to replacement players and would still watch. I know that it's not possible because this is not a strike.

The bet you propose in unrealistic.

How about this. If the player's decided to form their own league and compete with the owners of the NBA. Not only would the league formed by the players fail before the 2nd season started it would probably never get off the ground. On the other hand if the owner's just decided to forget about the players not willing to negotiate and began hiring players they would eventually have a league not only stronger than the players would ever manage but would also still end up with all of the best players coming out of college. Eventually all of the players would end up back in the NBA playing for the owner's that now exist.

If they did that they would also gain the control of their league that they are seeking.
 
NUMBERICA said:
A guy making the minimum gets hurt the most this way. They might be better off playing for a D-league team than paying for 40+ charter flights and 40+ really expensive hotel rooms.
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I agree. And it would never happen. Just like a league ran by the players would never happen.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Also, if the NFL is willing to lockout, that tells you a lot about ownership simply trying to get every cent they can. Same with players. That's what this is all about. There are no saints, and there are only victims.
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I've seen the article on how the NBA teams can manipulate their books but let's also look at the flipside. Maybe the owners are telling the truth and are losing money. If the league did collectively lose 300M as stated, then something needs to change. We could go into a bunch of options but the quick, sensible thing to do here is lower the salary cap and in turn, player's salaries. Nothing else is going to cut into that 300M deficit like that will. The product (the games) isn't getting it done so why should that product with inflated salaries remain such?

In the real world, when companies are bleeding money, people are fired to cut costs and streamline efficiency. Sure, the same could be done here. Teams could (and might for all we know) let go of employees here or there in different departments. But that's not going to save millions and millions and get them in the black. Reducing the cap number might.

This isn't about the owners being greedy in my opinion, as much as it is the owners trying to keep their business afloat. The NBA almost folded about 30 years ago and it could happen again. In fact, it will happen again if proper business measures aren't taken.

At the end off the day, when it comes down to it, if you want to question the owners and their motives and numbers (which are legal according to U.S. GAAP), then that's your call. But the fact is, it's their team. It's they who shelled out billions and billions of dollars to buy their teams and in turn, make a profit. They're not doing it for charity. Sure some more than others (I'm looking at you Mark Cuban) may have a passion for the game. But they're not simply doing it because they love basketball. They bought each team as a business investment. And they can run each team as they see fit.

This is not the same as the NFL where the owners are making money. However, again, they're the ones who are risking billions and billions of dollars. If they feel they're not getting a big enough part of the profit, that's how they feel. Can you blame them? Would you not feel the same? I'm not saying you would but I think there's a great chance that anyone in their position might.
 
I've said many times things need to change and that the players should and are going to be on the losing side, no doubt. But I think it's absurd that BRI should be something that changes, and if it does, that it would change in favor of the owners. Players deserve every cent of that cut since they are who we watch. They are who makes it the best basketball on earth. They are the Jazz, and every other team. I don't give A **** about college ball because it's so much worse. Cut or significantly marginalize guaranteed deals, put in a flex cap, put in something like a franchise tag. Do the things necessary to allow teams to fix the situation they've gotten themselves into and cultivate parity. But the players deserve most of the share here, especially since they have such a small window to earn their money and no owner is putting his body on the line for owning the team either.

The problem isn't that players make 57%. It's that owners have been irresponsible with the remaining 43% and have no way to get out from under their own mistakes. I cannot emphasize enough that there are NO good guys in this battle. And everyone are victims in it. Don't forget that the fans matter the least to both parties.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I've said many times things need to change and that the players should and are going to be on the losing side, no doubt. But I think it's absurd that BRI should be something that changes, and if it does, that it would change in favor of the owners. Players deserve every cent of that cut since they are who we watch. They are who makes it the best basketball on earth. They are the Jazz, and every other team. I don't give A **** about college ball because it's so much worse. Cut or significantly marginalize guaranteed deals, put in a flex cap, put in something like a franchise tag. Do the things necessary to allow teams to fix the situation they've gotten themselves into and cultivate parity. But the players deserve most of the share here, especially since they have such a small window to earn their money and no owner is putting his body on the line for owning the team either.

The problem isn't that players make 57%. It's that owners have been irresponsible with the remaining 43% and have no way to get out from under their own mistakes. I cannot emphasize enough that there are NO good guys in this battle. And everyone are victims in it. Don't forget that the fans matter the least to both parties.
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Fine then the owner's should give them their 57% and then camp them in a motel 6, make them fly commercial airlines in coach and cut all costs related to keeping them happy outside of their contracts. I would venture to guess than the luxuries these players get for free cover another 10-20% of the owner's income. That is another great way for the owner's to cut a major cost. I think the players would throw a fit if it happened but hell they'd still have their majority of the income the league gets.

I also think if they won't give up some of their money the league should ban any income the players get from sponsors. No more Nike contracts to supplement their income. Those sources directly effect the profit the league could make by signing deals with those sponsors. By eliminating the option of player's signing a contract with a certain shoe maker the league could now sign those deals for the entire team or league in order to increase their income. Again the player's would throw a fit but they would have their 57%. And this way those huge deals would increase the salary of the all the players instead of every penny of it going to a select few.
 
It should be reminded that the NBA did offer much more in the way of financial statements than any other sports league has offered in their negotiations. Those statements were then remanded to independent analysts agreed upon by both parties. Sure the players see discrepancies, but their proposals of concessions would be a good indicator they believe the league is actually losing money.
 
Oh, and I think everyone at this point agrees that revenue sharing is a good idea, it's just a matter of to what degree. That's my read, anyway.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I've said many times things need to change and that the players should and are going to be on the losing side, no doubt. But I think it's absurd that BRI should be something that changes, and if it does, that it would change in favor of the owners. Players deserve every cent of that cut since they are who we watch. They are who makes it the best basketball on earth. They are the Jazz, and every other team. I don't give A **** about college ball because it's so much worse. Cut or significantly marginalize guaranteed deals, put in a flex cap, put in something like a franchise tag. Do the things necessary to allow teams to fix the situation they've gotten themselves into and cultivate parity. But the players deserve most of the share here, especially since they have such a small window to earn their money and no owner is putting his body on the line for owning the team either.

The problem isn't that players make 57%. It's that owners have been irresponsible with the remaining 43% and have no way to get out from under their own mistakes. I cannot emphasize enough that there are NO good guys in this battle. And everyone are victims in it. Don't forget that the fans matter the least to both parties.
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So as fans, we need to agree to our own lockout. Think you could organize that? Facebook helped bring Mubarak down...
 
billyshelby said:
It should be reminded that the NBA did offer much more in the way of financial statements than any other sports league has offered in their negotiations. Those statements were then remanded to independent analysts agreed upon by both parties. Sure the players see discrepancies, but their proposals of concessions would be a good indicator they believe the league is actually losing money.
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Exactly what I was going to say. Despite Forbes recent article, there is no question that the NBA is losing money, the players just disagree with a couple of expenses (like amortization of arenas). The players would have never offered $100 million per season back right off the bat if they didn't believe that the NBA was losing money.
 
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