Ha.. you said seaman.
Longest Thread Ever
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I get the premise, but it’s intellectually dishonest. Mormons believe in LOTS of things that evidence is in strong disproportionate assault on those beliefs.
It’s more disproving a negative.
all religion is in some sense "intellectually dishonest" and generally irrefutable on the grounds of logic. Because if it does not involve assertions of "faith" or "belief" in the unproven or unprovable, it is not what we generally understand "religion" to be.
Mormonism emerging during the European Enlightenment was decades behind other rationalist attempts to improve upon the dark ages' dogmas, and many early proponents attempted to correlate the faith with science. Lots of problems with that.
But when addressing the issues beyond our knowing, we really have nothing better to go on. Science and religion both seek to explain the universe beyond our knowing, but employ different tools for "seeing" the great beyond.
not sure what you think is relevant here. I googled Davy Jones and related the story in one sentence. The link used the word seaman. I just googled "seaman" and found there are contemporary cultural/entertainment productions using the term, and Merriam-Webster defines the term as a member of one of the lowest three ranks of naval servicemen/workers.
Sorry I didn't get your point..... still.....
I don't think so. Wrong maybe, unprovable to mortals on our order of existence, certainly. But people can sincerely and honestly believe things of this nature. As JFC has codified "lying", it's not lying if you believe it's true, and I would throw in "it's not intellectually dishonest, either".
A Mormon scientist like Henry Eyring, reading the D&C or PofGP, or Book of Mormon.... or even the Bible..... has literal mountains of intellectual challenges to deal with somehow..... and so do ministerial or pastoral folks of all Christian variants in regard to their "scriptural " texts that have obvious conflicts either with historical scholarship, or any other standard of judgment or research seeking facts.... objective, provable to our logic, sorts of stuff.
Henry Eyring chose to accept scientific findings in the field of evolution and geology as facts despite some folks' ideas of what the scriptures lay down as essential assertions. He was a practical man, and treated everyone with respect even those who disagreed with him. He tried hard not to be offensive, and when intellectuals came on attack mode to prove him wrong somehow, he was ready to say he didn't know how God did something, but he considered it his faith to believe whatever actually is the truth, when we can reliably know it to be so.
I would take the issue on a little different tack, and say there is no such thing as "settled science" or "scientific fact" even, because enquiry is the essence of science, and the formulation of challenges to existing ideas is the very purpose of science.
And I oppose any government effort to assert "settled science" on the populace. Government is incompetent on the subject and should never be given the power to license professionals involved in science of any sort. Or religion.
Indeed, I consider it my mission in life to challenge every form of dogma that anyone seeks to establish as the only acceptable idea on any subject.
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Intellectual Dishonesty
I suppose, is something like taking a scientific finding showing global temps have increased in concert with rising atmospheric carbon dioxide, and saying that proves God does not exist, or that we should fund UN global governance and give a little clique of Al Gore's friends with huge holdings in coal mine stock an equally huge asset in carbon credits they can sell easily around the world at huge profits. Oh, yah. And that we should agree to shut down American carbon burning while allowing China and India to just roll on and on burning carbon. In order to cut CO2, we should actually increase CO2 use world wide.....
uhhmmm..... maybe claiming that an infinite God that fills the vast Cosmos lives in one little nuclear holocaust lost in insignificance in a single galaxy.....maybe that takes incredible selection of data and ideas to hammer that together somehow...... maybe you're right.... in an intellectually dishonest fashion.
But Mormons believe God is a perfected man, glorified with a kind of immortality that transcends mere nuclear stars, and has finite physical/spiritual from like a man, and can radiate in some fashion the reality of His Presence instantaneously, appearing somewhere in an instant within a pillar of light.... yah, so living inside the Sun..... maybe.
a sort of theory of physical reality that transcends the idea of location while retaining a finite personhood.
uhhhmmm..... pretty sure I'm a child babbling nonsense in the sight of God.... but at least open to imaginative possibilities.
I suppose, is something like taking a scientific finding showing global temps have increased in concert with rising atmospheric carbon dioxide, and saying that proves God does not exist, or that we should fund UN global governance and give a little clique of Al Gore's friends with huge holdings in coal mine stock an equally huge asset in carbon credits they can sell easily around the world at huge profits. Oh, yah. And that we should agree to shut down American carbon burning while allowing China and India to just roll on and on burning carbon. In order to cut CO2, we should actually increase CO2 use world wide.....
uhhmmm..... maybe claiming that an infinite God that fills the vast Cosmos lives in one little nuclear holocaust lost in insignificance in a single galaxy.....maybe that takes incredible selection of data and ideas to hammer that together somehow...... maybe you're right.... in an intellectually dishonest fashion.
But Mormons believe God is a perfected man, glorified with a kind of immortality that transcends mere nuclear stars, and has finite physical/spiritual from like a man, and can radiate in some fashion the reality of His Presence instantaneously, appearing somewhere in an instant within a pillar of light.... yah, so living inside the Sun..... maybe.
a sort of theory of physical reality that transcends the idea of location while retaining a finite personhood.
uhhhmmm..... pretty sure I'm a child babbling nonsense in the sight of God.... but at least open to imaginative possibilities.
So I'm looking for the new page/new topic spot again, I guess.
Historically, the LTE idea had some JFC members willing to have some fun with it, but I ruined it by making serious comments, and "Dr. Jones" was a long way out in front with several of his scouting threads. The thrill-seeking numbers game sorta ran outta steam I dunno about post 2000. OL helped roll the ball on up until recently, and OB and Siro would take some interest, rarely, in the serious comments.
Dr. Jones gets his fun outta basketball, I think. Maybe I'll do some game comments and try to run up the count like this is the online chat sorta thing during games.... but hey, we have that on the front page. Nevertheless, I'm nothing if not redundant...... lol.....
But really, what I need is more frivolity in my life. Thank you in advance for any offerings.....
Historically, the LTE idea had some JFC members willing to have some fun with it, but I ruined it by making serious comments, and "Dr. Jones" was a long way out in front with several of his scouting threads. The thrill-seeking numbers game sorta ran outta steam I dunno about post 2000. OL helped roll the ball on up until recently, and OB and Siro would take some interest, rarely, in the serious comments.
Dr. Jones gets his fun outta basketball, I think. Maybe I'll do some game comments and try to run up the count like this is the online chat sorta thing during games.... but hey, we have that on the front page. Nevertheless, I'm nothing if not redundant...... lol.....
But really, what I need is more frivolity in my life. Thank you in advance for any offerings.....
I dunno, I at first see this thread as like one of those lounge you can hang out with friends or strangers in with pizzas and beers and just chat about nonsense stuff and just have fun with it relaxing and not care too much...
It was kinda like that until all of a sudden we reach a topic about politics or religion and suddenly a few people get serious about what they're saying and dig their heels in, and all of a sudden people are looking around at each other with that 'it's time to go home' look on their faces and started leaving ...
It was kinda like that until all of a sudden we reach a topic about politics or religion and suddenly a few people get serious about what they're saying and dig their heels in, and all of a sudden people are looking around at each other with that 'it's time to go home' look on their faces and started leaving ...
Well, I thought you wanted a serious answer. Pretty sure you don't want the answer I gave. You and Red did a turn around on Red's topic, and I didn't jump on anyone there.
Philosophy is unlike religion in one respect, if not more, in that it doesn't specify enforcement. Policing and regulation of human thought can be done by governments, societies, tribes, even wives, but in the context of restricting governments from making laws establishing religions as part of the state propaganda/education, Churches pretty much respect the two feet rule. If anyone doesn't like what is being said, they have two feet to walk away on.
I looked for and referenced diverse sources in my response.... from a Stalinist-compliant Russian scholar and even a few of my own noncanonized Bible reconstructions.
made a note it was not the direction you wanted to go.