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Ecclesiastes, revised?
Modernized! Ecclesiastes 1 is wonderful.
To me, the essential claim of Judeo-Christian tradition is an objective, sometimes of rarely demonstrable "God" known in the Old Testament as Jehovah. If people, anyone, chooses to place faith in that God, it is claimed there is a covenant available if you wish to serve that God and His People, or mankind in general, bearing that name.
Islam builds, either parallel or sequential claims out of the Abrahamic covenant, as some may consider it.
Other religions do not identify the "person" or specific entity of "God" generally, but attribute the underlying essence of Nature to the God they worship.
In many cases, these beliefs bring with them specific moral imperatives which do make a difference in the life path and choices and moral values which they follow. But I would hazard an estimation that what you describe as negatives of religious faith may apply quite well to some, and perhaps to many of the less-thoughtful followers who have not done much deep reflection on the faith they claim.
I believe there are some, a few, who have particular and reasonable experience that justifies their belief. If you do not have that kind of reason, you are in no position to make a valid judgment on those particular cases. Let's say, for example, the case of Moses, who certainly wasn't looking for the visit from God in Sinai at the time of the "burning bush" episode. I don't think my own experience is much different, and there is no way I'd just say "Go to Hell" to the God I know.
So anyway, I hope you would consider the implications of too strong an opinion that may drive you to acts of religious intolerance or acts of specific persecutions or maybe to enjoin government action against any "religion". If you give any government that power, you are also giving that government the power to exercise control of more objective beliefs or societal practices.
In general, I think leaving people free to think and have opinions is essential to good government.
well, this is an assertion that is pretty hard to objectively prove, but it is the position of so many of us humans. Even the Bible says "dust to dust" , while pointing to an improbable hope, perhaps. again, beyond "proof".
I say a man's reach should exceed his grasp. It is better to have some kind of good, so far as we can hope or believe anything we humans or any of us as persons can think of, and develop reasons, to try. Even if it is the government we try to emplace as the chief means for making things "better". I only object to some government actions as imo unwise.
I loved Ecclesiastes when I found it in my teens. I think I practically memorized it. It is a fair caution to overblown hopes.
what? no one reads my drivel? I slip in a claim equivalent to Moses' "Burning Bush", and nobody immediately calls it crap?
OK, so with me it was a pomegranate bush. behind me was a fig tree. I think I must have been age ten. The issue was some abusive situations at home, and I was planning to run away. I had gotten maps, located springs in the desert, and was planning to use a bike, carry some food and water, a shovel so I could dig a dugout near a spring, and nobody but nobody could ever find me. I woulda gotten pretty hungry, and cold in the winter. I was giving my reasons to God, saying I might as well be in a Russian prison.
Somehow, the idea came and took hold in me: "If you can endure this you can endure anything", along with a sorta feeling that I was loved.
I was just totally blown away with the idea that God loved me and would answer my prayer. I went into that clump of pomegranate bushes and fig trees a real bawling babe, and left pretty nearly a real man. It was transforming.
Somehow, I just don't remember the problems continuing. I think I was no longer a suitable target.
OK, so with me it was a pomegranate bush. behind me was a fig tree. I think I must have been age ten. The issue was some abusive situations at home, and I was planning to run away. I had gotten maps, located springs in the desert, and was planning to use a bike, carry some food and water, a shovel so I could dig a dugout near a spring, and nobody but nobody could ever find me. I woulda gotten pretty hungry, and cold in the winter. I was giving my reasons to God, saying I might as well be in a Russian prison.
Somehow, the idea came and took hold in me: "If you can endure this you can endure anything", along with a sorta feeling that I was loved.
I was just totally blown away with the idea that God loved me and would answer my prayer. I went into that clump of pomegranate bushes and fig trees a real bawling babe, and left pretty nearly a real man. It was transforming.
Somehow, I just don't remember the problems continuing. I think I was no longer a suitable target.
For that and a hundred or more similar real experiences, I could not reasonably believe either that there is no God consistent with Judeo-Christian theology or that I am not loved by that God, or Father.
When I hear faithful Mormons relate comparable experiences, I find a familiar thread that proves I'm not the only one who knows.
When I listen to the radio program "Unshackled", produced by Pacific Garden Mission, I find the same reality.
https://www.pgm.org/donate/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=pacific garden mission chicago&utm_campaign=paid&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkP6rl-ny2gIVh_hkCh2W-QALEAAYASAAEgJHN_D_BwE
https://unshackled.org/
When I hear faithful Mormons relate comparable experiences, I find a familiar thread that proves I'm not the only one who knows.
When I listen to the radio program "Unshackled", produced by Pacific Garden Mission, I find the same reality.
https://www.pgm.org/donate/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=pacific garden mission chicago&utm_campaign=paid&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkP6rl-ny2gIVh_hkCh2W-QALEAAYASAAEgJHN_D_BwE
https://unshackled.org/
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I am reposting this video, which still is a favorite with me. I would count folks who can sing like this as my friends, my best friends.
there are probably very few people who could have a better, more objective, more reasonable basis for believing this reality than me. Maybe millions who if they thought it through and understood all that God has done for them. But I have had years to think about it. Many years.
there are probably very few people who could have a better, more objective, more reasonable basis for believing this reality than me. Maybe millions who if they thought it through and understood all that God has done for them. But I have had years to think about it. Many years.
So here is a fun account of Jesus, and how one man figures one good proof of who Jesus was.
He makes the same mistake about who Jesus is that Mormons have made since Talmadge wrote "Jesus The Christ". Of course Joseph Smith declared "Bad doctrine does not make a bad man.", and.... well.... who ever read the Old Testament anyways. The people who knew Jesus alive could not understand how a man could do what he did unless he was God.
mistaking His declaration about his identity for being an equivalence statement not what it was, an example statement setting a pattern for the teaching that if we follow Him we can become like Him.
He makes the same mistake about who Jesus is that Mormons have made since Talmadge wrote "Jesus The Christ". Of course Joseph Smith declared "Bad doctrine does not make a bad man.", and.... well.... who ever read the Old Testament anyways. The people who knew Jesus alive could not understand how a man could do what he did unless he was God.
mistaking His declaration about his identity for being an equivalence statement not what it was, an example statement setting a pattern for the teaching that if we follow Him we can become like Him.
So anyways, taking all this back to my discussion above about Life and Love. It's an on-going program, this propagation of Life through this Universe, and something we can choose to help with.
The problem I see with atheists or unbelievers or people who merely don't see the whole picture, is that we don't see what we should be or could be doing.
Of course, human beings carry in themselves the capacities for virtue whether we understand God, or believe in God, or not. And most of us are sorta amazing, all things considered. Most of us want to do good stuff, and most of us love other people.... well, at least..... most of us love dogs anyways...... lol. And even dogs love us. So why wouldn't God?
The problem I see with atheists or unbelievers or people who merely don't see the whole picture, is that we don't see what we should be or could be doing.
Of course, human beings carry in themselves the capacities for virtue whether we understand God, or believe in God, or not. And most of us are sorta amazing, all things considered. Most of us want to do good stuff, and most of us love other people.... well, at least..... most of us love dogs anyways...... lol. And even dogs love us. So why wouldn't God?
Frankly, for folks like Ron, and Red, and Karl Marx for that matter, who think religion is some kind of problem keeping back human progress, I think about all I can say is that this world is God's. And there is a plan, a better plan, for it.
Life was brought here in the first place. There have been other worlds. This creation business is an old, old business. Whatever the problems have been before, Management has seen what has gone wrong, and found some way to deal with it.
I don't know what happens when a sun like ours becomes a Red Giant, and our world is consumed in the heat, but I bet we get to go on somewhere.
It is imo a great God who can afford to let us think what we want, and it would be a great government if we could just be that free between ourselves.
Life was brought here in the first place. There have been other worlds. This creation business is an old, old business. Whatever the problems have been before, Management has seen what has gone wrong, and found some way to deal with it.
I don't know what happens when a sun like ours becomes a Red Giant, and our world is consumed in the heat, but I bet we get to go on somewhere.
It is imo a great God who can afford to let us think what we want, and it would be a great government if we could just be that free between ourselves.