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Matthews: Jazz never made me an offer. I would have accepted less.

from sltrib blog: https://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogs/j...thews.html.csp
News: Wesley Matthews signed a five-year, $32.7 million contract with Portland after one outstanding season with the Jazz, who gave the undrafted free agent his opportunity to make an impact in the NBA.

Reaction: Two decades ago, Miami pursued a free agent by the name of John Stockton. The Heat were ready to offer the Jazz point guard $10 million a year -- an astronomical sum in those days. While reporting the story, I obviously had several conversations with Stockton, but one stands out after all these years and is applicable to today's happenings in the NBA. At one point, I suggested to Stockton that he had to take the offer, just to be fair to himself and his family. But in his unique, down-to-earth, level-headed way, he replied, "Steve, how much is enough?" I wonder what agents like Lance Young, who represents Matthews, would think about a client who told him, 'You know, I'm going to take a little less money because this is the organization and a coaching staff that gave me a chance. Let's give a little something back to the people who had faith in me, when nobody else did.'"
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I agree with those saying "Good Luck" to Wes. And it will definitely be interesting to see how his career pans out over the next few years, and whether or not that salary will be justified.

I disagree with the notion that he should feel he "owes" the Jazz something JUST because the Jazz took a chance, signed him, and gave him playing time etc. etc. etc. The Jazz did that to fill their needs, not to do some "good deed" to a struggling NBA wanna-be. Plus, it's not a fair comparison - Stockton had been with the Jazz how many years at that point? Certainly quite a few, he'd established an entire career with the team, not just one year.
 
I am with you Moe. I think the nature of free agency affects loyalty on both sides, which is unfortunate really because as a fan there was nothing better than having Stockton and Malone for so many years. I don't think the Jazz or Wes did anything wrong here. Both sides made a business decision that was best.
 
Borat said:
I think it comes down to this: what Wes said about not testing the market if Jazz made an offer right away cannot be true. Maybe that's what Wes says and thinks right now, but logically, it is almost impossible that he would do it.
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Your position has changed quite a bit, Borat. That's fine, and I'm not trying to mock, ridicule, or criticize you for re-evaluating. Quite the contrary, actually. Your post indicates that you have actually given the situation more thought, and have considered most of the information available to you, rather than selectively emphasizing only that "evidence" and argument which might serve to "prove" a conclusion which you may have reached just because you "wanted to."

It's kind of ironic that your post is made to Harcher, who initially opposed your original stance, but then quickly abandoned his position and then embraced your (former) view of the matter, based on a statement of Matthews that was both misrepresented (in the thread title) and inherently suspect, given the circumstances.

KOC had options (such as Bell) and he knew it. KOC had personally stated, long before the free agency started, that it was a "top priority" for the Jazz to sign Matthews. If he made any "mistakes" it may have been that. Matthews himself cited such statements as the reason he was surprised the Jazz didn't match any offer he could extract from the Blazers, however "unreasonable."

But KOC wouldn't say it was a "top priority" and then refuse to even consider talking to Wes when free agency began. No doubt he verbally threw out certain numbers the Jazz would entertain for Wes's agent to consider and was rebuffed by being told that nothing less than the max would do. KOC knew he could always match "the max" whether Wes wanted him to, or not. He therefore had no incentive whatsoever to offer the max, and many "disincentives" for doing it. In the meantime, KOC had no choice but to start looking at such alternatives to Wes as Bell. Even so, the last thing KOC wanted to do was to drive Wes away from the Jazz to Portland. On the other hand, there was no way he could stop Wes from signing with Portland if that's what Wes wanted to do.
 
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Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I think about the only player that really sacrificed a high percentage of salary to stay with their team this year was Haslem with Miami so dont think you can blame Matthews for taking the big offer. However, O'Connor is saying he is basically lying about the Jazz not talking with him. So if true have lost a lot of respect for Matthews. Roy has had some injury problems so who knows maybe he will play more than 15 minutes a game.
 
Hopper said:
KOC had options (such as Bell) and he knew it. KOC had personally stated, long before the free agency started, that it was a "top priority" for the Jazz to sign Matthews. If he made any "mistakes" it may have been that. Matthews himself cited such statements as the reason he was surprised the Jazz didn't match any offer he could extract from the Blazers, however "unreasonable."
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One thing was implicit in this statement, but I though I would elaborate, just to make it explicit:

One thing posters seem to have complained about is the perception that KOC didn't show Matthews enough "love," and therefore somehow alienated Wes. But that whole process works two ways. With some people, the more you make it clear to them that you really value and want them, the more they will demand from you to "get" them. Put another way, the more they think (know) you value them, the more they will expect you to do to 'keep" them.
 
Hopper said:
Your position has changed quite a bit, Borat. That's fine, and I'm not trying to mock, ridicule, or criticize you for re-evaluating. Quite the contrary, actually. Your post indicates that you have actually given the situation more thought, and have considered most of the information available to you, rather than selectively emphasizing only that "evidence" and argument which might serve to "prove" a conclusion which you may have reached just because you "wanted to."

It's kind of ironic that your post is made to Harcher, who initially opposed your original stance, but then quickly abandoned his position and then embraced your (former) view of the matter, based on a statement of Matthews that was both misrepresented (in the thread title) and inherently suspect, given the circumstances.

KOC had options (such as Bell) and he knew it. KOC had personally stated, long before the free agency started, that it was a "top priority" for the Jazz to sign Matthews. If he made any "mistakes" it may have been that. Matthews himself cited such statements as the reason he was surprised the Jazz didn't match any offer he could extract from the Blazers, however "unreasonable."

But KOC wouldn't say it was a "top priority" and then refuse to even consider talking to Wes when free agency began. No doubt he verbally threw out certain numbers the Jazz would entertain for Wes's agent to consider and was rebuffed by being told that nothing less than the max would do. KOC knew he could always match "the max" whether Wes wanted him to, or not. He therefore had no incentive whatsoever to offer the max, and many "disincentives" for doing it. In the meantime, KOC had no choice but to start looking at such alternatives to Wes as Bell. Even so, the last thing KOC wanted to do was to drive Wes away from the Jazz to Portland. On the other hand, there was no way he could stop Wes from signing with Portland if that's what Wes wanted to do.
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My position, after learning the sick amount of Blazers offer, was that whether KOC negotiated or not is a moot point, since it is almost impossible for me to imagine a guy refusing 33mil after coming off 400K deal. Even if Jazz offered 16 (CJ's contract, which I consider fair), it's still too much to leave on the table. Ever since learning about 33 mil offer, I never suggested Wes would take less money. As I indicated in other threads, it's all a moot point. So, I don't see my position changing here. As far as whether KOC negotiated or not, I thought he didn't, Wes said he didn't, KOC said talk to Wes' agent. Whatever the truth may be, like I said - it's a moot point. Especially with KOC delivering Bell after this, we might be actually better off. Certainly at this time I have no complains about KOC on this. I like the end result, and that's the bottom line.
 
Borat said:
As I indicated in other threads, it's all a moot point. So, I don't see my position changing here. As far as whether KOC negotiated or not, I thought he didn't, Wes said he didn't, KOC said talk to Wes' agent. Whatever the truth may be, like I said - it's a moot point.
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Sure it's moot. That said, are you still of the opinion that it's obvious that KOC didn't "negotiate" and that he was wrong not to do so? Or has your position on that changed any?
 
More from Ross Siler on Twitter:

"This is getting ridiculous as far as what Wesley Matthews is claiming. Jazz were strung along in negotiations for close to two weeks".

"Wesley Matthews' agent, Lance Young, represented Chris Paul until this summer, when Paul left for LeBron's marketing company".

"You don't think Young was out this summer to get the biggest deals possible for Rudy Gay and Wes Matthews in wake of losing Chris Paul"?

"Jazz tried to set up a meeting in Orlando during summer league to talk contract. They were blown off. Next day Wes was flying to Portland".
 
My2Cents said:
More from Ross Siler on Twitter:

"This is getting ridiculous as far as what Wesley Matthews is claiming. Jazz were strung along in negotiations for close to two weeks".

"Wesley Matthews' agent, Lance Young, represented Chris Paul until this summer, when Paul left for LeBron's marketing company".

"You don't think Young was out this summer to get the biggest deals possible for Rudy Gay and Wes Matthews in wake of losing Chris Paul"?

"Jazz tried to set up a meeting in Orlando during summer league to talk contract. They were blown off. Next day Wes was flying to Portland".
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https://twitter.com/tribjazz
 
Hopper said:
Sure it's moot. That said, are you still of the opinion that it's obvious that KOC didn't "negotiate" and that he was wrong not to do so? Or has your position on that changed any?
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If Jazz did make Wes an offer, it's quite hard to fathom that Wes would just fabricate the false information that they didn't. But ... KOC seems to deny it, so Harcher described it best: he said, she said. Bottom line: I've been saying this is moot ever since learning about 34 mil offer. There was no way realistically that we could have kept Wes. I am happy with how KOC addressed the situation, and that's the biggest change since the time I thought the offer was 25 mil.
 
Borat said:
This is getting ridiculous. The guy played for Jazz for just one season, only 24 mins a game. It's not like Karl Malone being introduced as a Laker.
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I'm thinking the PDX front office has no choice but to hang their hat on Wesley's acquisition, I don't see them making any significant moves now. Really, what's out there for Portland? They have a **** load of wings they can trade, but no one of real worth. Plus, THEY'RE WINGS! They're forums are talking about getting CP3 or Tony Parker. HAHA! Their fans are living in LALA land.

This deal looks more and more like a backfire for Portland. They tried to screw us financially and failed.
 
Borat said:
This is getting ridiculous. The guy played for Jazz for just one season, only 24 mins a game. It's not like Karl Malone being introduced as a Laker.
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No, it's not at all. The guy was a restricted FA, loved playing in Utah, the fans and organization loved him. One of their top priorities was to re-sign him. Am I not allowed to be surprised that it happened, like everyone else? Give me a break.
 
calijazz said:
No, it's not at all. The guy was a restricted FA, loved playing in Utah, the fans and organization loved him. One of their top priorities was to re-sign him. Am I not allowed to be surprised that it happened, like everyone else? Give me a break.
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Sure I didn't want to lose him either, since he had an OK year here and is young, but let's not exaggerate. Given the guy spent just 1 year in Utah and played only 24 mins a game, "surreal" is a bit of an overkill, isn't it? We didn't just lose Jazz icon to another team. If anything, we replaced him with the guy who was more of a Jazzman than he is.
 
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