Mormons don't want you calling them Mormons anymore

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JimLes, Aug 17, 2018.

  1. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    Mormons seem to have an inferiority complex. We keep placating to evangelicals in hopes of gaining membership into their exclusive “American Christians” club.

    **** them. Most evangelicals are toothless racist trump supporters living in the south. They don’t give a Duck Dynasty or Honey Boo Boo what Mormons are called. Their intolerance from their trailer parks towards immigrants, African Americans, gays, Catholics, and anyone not deemed worthy of their exclusive club is well known. Exclusion from their club and earning their ire should be worn as a badge of honor.

    Mormons will never be accepted as Christians by evangelicals because of JS and his claims of restoring prophets and apostles and translating another bible, the BOM.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018

  2. bigb

    bigb Free at last!!! Contributor

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    Y’all can call me whatever the hell you want. I’ll still likely refer to myself as a Mormon. When I was on my mission, no one knew what The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints was. Everyone knew what the Mormon Church was. We simply explained it’s a nickname derived from the Nook of Mormon.
    Nothing the First Presidency says or does will change what people say or think or call us in places like Honduras, Zimbabwe, Russia, or Iowa.
     
  3. Siro

    Siro Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    Nook of Mormon!
     
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  4. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. jope

    jope Well-Known Member

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    I was raised by evangelicals (am now atheist). None of the stereotypes you mentioned were apparent or relevant within my family or the church they made me attend, so that was a little weird. They are certainly bat **** crazy about certain things, and send their money to freaks on tv who buy yachts for the lord, and most are republican trump supporters. But there are Mormons who can be described in the same manner. As far as the intolerance with blacks, gays, and clubs, it’s weird to hear a Mormon comment on those things considering the church’s spotty history on those matters (dark skin is a curse - white is purity, blacks and priesthood, homosexuality a learned sin that can be cured, etc etc).

    I was taught that Mormons weren’t Christian because of the things you mentioned, plus a whole myriad of other differences. Christian principles are almost exclusively faith based. Believe in Christ and repentance with certainty, you’ll be fine. TCoJCoLDS (wow even condensed, it’s a pain to write) places a lot of value on “works”. Completing the right tasks (missions, temple duties, marriage, church callings etc etc etc) helps get you to heaven and exaltation.

    Which leads to the whole man to god ideology, which is something so inversely different from Christianity that to call it Christian seems strange. If there are an infinite number of worlds, and gods, are there then an infinite number of Jesuses that came to pay for sins? Are all man gods required to send their sons down on their newly created worlds to pay for the new population’s sins? I’m genuinely confused by the topic. On top of all that, Baptism for the dead, temple ceremonies, a well observed tie to masonry (JS’s Masonic past, relics, alters, chants, handshakes, garments, symbology, etc) all lead to Christians not wanting to include LDS as Christian.

    I don’t really believe in any of that stuff, but I’m the sort of atheist that feels that if religion helps you find purpose and peace without harming others, I support you and your life choices.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
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  6. bigb

    bigb Free at last!!! Contributor

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    It’s a new MLM group. Get in now, on the ground floor, and be a millionaire in mere months!
     
  7. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    I don’t necessarily disagree with a lot of this. However, Mormonism initially didn’t treat blacks as second class members. Joseph Smith actually ran a presidential campaign whose platform consisted of abolitionism. It’s only after Smith that the church took on more evangelical leanings and treated blacks as second class citizens. This persisted until 1979.

    Bastians of Evangelicals continuously lead the nation in treating blacks as second class citizens. Look at the states that support Trump the most and are trying desperately to inhibit blacks from voting. Where evangelicals infest the land you typically see less tolerance other other religions and races. You couldn’t pay me enough to live in the ********* states of the south.
     
  8. ♪alt13

    ♪alt13 Well-Known Member

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    If you get this you might be a Utahn
     
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  9. Jazzta

    Jazzta Well-Known Member

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    Hence, I don’t get it..

    Well, not a born Utahn anyway.
     
  10. framer

    framer Well-Known Member

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    Mainly it looks like a style guide for press reports, which is kind of the way it has been for a couple of decades now. Generally press have been pretty respectful, except the ones that try to link the Warren Jeffs crowd with the Latter Day Saint church down the street by using the catchall term "Mormon." You get more hits that way.

    If The Church could have copywrited the term "Mormon" It probably wouldn't have been a point of emphasis.
     
  11. DutchJazzer

    DutchJazzer Banned

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    lol this hack brought in poltiics and racism into it.

    playing the race card. and the trump derangement syndrome symptoms popping up. hahahahaha

    sorry i offended people who suffer from TDS with his comment. see you in 6 months
     
  12. colton

    colton All Around Nice Guy Staff Member

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    That's a common complaint from evangelicals in my experience, but is often blown out of proportion. Mormons (ha, see what I did there) don't believe we earn our way to heaven, we believe that we get to heaven by following Jesus... and there are certain things that Jesus has asked us to do so we should do them. See the difference? The only works that are required in some sense are symbols of covenants--such as baptism--and have a mechanism to be done in the hereafter (for example through baptism for the dead), and so even the "required" actions aren't actually required in this life.

    However, I will say that from what I've read from church teachings/talks from the past, works did used to be over-emphasized. I believe this was likely in reaction to evangelical teachings that minimized works and went to the other extreme of "once saved/always saved despite what you may do thereafter". That, in my opinion and that of the LDS church is flawed doctrine and should be corrected. But certainly in recent years, church leaders have mostly stopped emphasizing those differences and have more often emphasized the grace of God and how works alone profit us nothing without Christ. See here, for example, for an excellent talk by Dieter Uchtdorf (a counselor to the church president at the time) in 2015: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/04/the-gift-of-grace?lang=eng. That really gets to the core of LDS belief about faith vs. works, and I strongly recommend you read it.

    Maybe this isn't the right thread for this discussion, but I'll tackle it. The only doctrine about that in official LDS canon is that men can become like God. This is actually closely related to the doctrine of deification (aka divinization) held to some extent by many mainstream Christian groups. See this article, for example, which gives summaries of the views of various Christian groups, including LDS/Mormons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinization_(Christian). Mormons take a more literal view of "becoming like God" than do most other Christians, but it's not like this is foreign doctrine.

    Now where LDS doctrine goes farther is in speculation that, if we can become like God, did God start out like us? That doctrine was taught be Joseph Smith in his "King Follett discourse", but unfortunately he was murdered before he could explain the ramifications of the idea, nor how it could/should be reconciled with statements in scripture about how God is eternal, etc. And it wasn't presented to the church as scripture. So the idea has certainly been around in the church, and is even discussed in Sunday School classes and the like from time to time, but it's not canonical doctrine in the same sense that "men can become like God" is.

    So, with regards to your particular questions there is no actual LDS doctrine and it would just be speculation to answer them. I won't let that stop me though. :) I personally don't believe in an infinite number of Jesuses nor that once we become like God that we will need to send our sons anywhere to pay for sins of our own spirit children.

    I'll mention that (as you probably know) baptism for the dead was practiced by some of the early Christians, and it's lack of practice in today's Christianity is seen by LDS church members as evidence of an apostasy. With regards to other temple ceremonies you are no doubt correct--there isn't evidence of the in the early Christian church, and they very likely seem odd and different to other Christian groups. But more important undoubtedly (at least in my opinion) is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint's (had to spell it out at least once. :) ) claim of being the only true church, i.e. the only organization which possesses the needed authority from God and Christ to function as a church...which has as its corollary that the other Christian churches are deficient in some ways. I think that's what really rubs the other churches wrong, and it's in retaliation of that (at least in my opinion) that some of them don't want to recognize us as a Christian church in our own right.

    I like that. I think that's the type of atheist I would be. :)
     
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  13. Joe Bagadonuts

    Joe Bagadonuts Well-Known Member

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    I think the Mormon Church does itself and everyone else a disservice with the claim that it is the one true church. Whether it's true or not, it rubs people the wrong way for obvious reasons. I think it is a very "unchristian" claim to make. Far better to just live as a good example and let other people decide to follow a similar path if they admire yours.

    I've been fortunate to experience many cultures in my life, and one of the things that strikes me the most is that different societies seem to be built around religions that are very well suited to them. I've read extensively on the evolution of religions from paganism to the more predominant religions today. To me, it makes sense that God, if there is one, would be more concerned with people living moral lives, and far less concerned with being worshiped or requiring certain ceremonies. If God is so into himself to need that sort of stuff, then I'm not into God.
     
  14. JazzGal

    JazzGal Well-Known Member Contributor

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    I agree with Colton that this isn't likely to change much of anything, just like other attempts in the past have had little effect. Russell Nelson, current LDS president, first mentioned this in 1990'ish. I imagine it has always irritated him and now he's in a position to try to change it ("impressed upon my mind"). It makes sense to request that news organizations follow a few guidelines in referring to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but requests in the past have not been terribly successful. Even if news organizations follow the request, they will still have to add something like ("Mormons") following the name if they expect their readers to know what they are talking about.

    If "the Church" is serious about it, they have a lot of re-branding to do. There are a lot of programs, websites, and names like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir that will need to be changed. Unless that happens, this attempt will be as short-lived as the rest.

    I could never understand when I was Mormon why we were not considered Christian. In my limited worldview, I thought that being Christian meant only believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ. I understand it much better now, and I agree that there is little other than changing doctrine that will convince other sects that Mormons are Christian in the general meaning of that term.

    As for me, I will still refer to myself as Ex-Mormon (Ex-Mo) or former Mormon (Fo-Mo?), when I have to identify in some way (there is no escape from that because I live in Utah).

    This.
     
  15. RandyForRubio

    RandyForRubio Well-Known Member

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    Considering Christ said “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light, nobody can come to the Father except through me”, it seems it would be very Christ-like to claim to be the one true church.

    With that said, I’m one of those nasty evangelicals Thriller likes to talk about that doesn’t agree with Mormonism and is a racist that hates anybody who isn’t white.
     
  16. Archie Moses

    Archie Moses Banned

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    The "don't refer to us as Mormons" thing came around a long time ago and it didn't even work amongst the church itself. I don't know why they would try it again. It's not going to work, even the church's most faithful members don't care to follow it e.g. colton in this very thread.

    I used to always think it was dumb, when I was religious, to tell someone of some faith they're not Christians because of one's perceived rules, etc. It's like saying someone doesn't like popsicles because their popsicle was made a little different. Don't you have anything better to do?!?! Or when they'd say Mormons have ******* crazy beliefs like Joseph Smith finding the golden plates. You know, because believing things like Jonah being swallowed by a huge *** fish for three days and things like that are so much more believable, right?

    Mormons, imo, are easy targets to both the media and public. They get **** on a lot and the same dumb ****s that **** on them are the same dumb ****s that go out of their way to stand up for other, far more hurtful religions, or religions that have the same teachings.

    I never understood how people sit and rock back and forth in their chair and worry so much that Mormons pay tithing, or the church has a ton of money, like it personally hurts their life. I think there are far worse things to worry about in life than people following something they believe and brings them peace, comfort, joy and structure. Even if it's ******** in real life or to you, it's not to them. If someone wants to throw money at a preacher who has a private jet because it brings them joy, then right on, brother. If it makes you happy.

    Don't get me wrong, Mormons have their quirks and annoying traits, but tell me one group of people that don't? Live and let live, dudes (as long as it's not hurting people... yeah, I know this is complicated.)
     
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  17. colton

    colton All Around Nice Guy Staff Member

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    I have made this point so many times. And compared to the central miracle of Christianity, namely Jesus dying, being resurrected, and somehow paying for our sins in the process, even things like Jonah and the whale (big fish) are minuscule. Not to mention Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, like you pointed out.
     
  18. TroutBum

    TroutBum My Member's Premium Contributor

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    Mo, Mo-Mo, Motard, Jack, Dickface, etc. It matters not a lick to me.
     
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