Most Glaring Roster Holes

Ron Mexico

Well-Known Member
Contributor
By what metric?
Joe has been almost unplayable at times in the playoffs last 2 years. His defense has slipped a lot and he wont shoot open shots and kills our offense with those. Bojan creates more for himself on offense, scores more points, spaces the floor better, gets to the FT line more, and his defense is about the same now. Ingles passes better but not enough to make up for the large gap in offense that Bojan gives us.

I like Ingles but he just does not seem to care about basketball as much and father time is catching up with him. I think he needs to move to the bench full-time next year or we will struggle. That said I hope we get someone like Favors who he can play the pick and roll with. He was much better with Favors than Gobert.

Link below but Bojan had a better net rating for our team in the regular season. He was 2nd behind Gobert. Bojan also had a better player impact estimate. He was 3rd behind Gobert and Mitchell. We didnt get to see Bojan in the playoffs with this team I doubt he would have regressed as much as Ingles did. Also people are remembering Bojan towards the end of the season when he was playing through his injury that was effecting his game.

I also think you are equating Ingles not starting and Conley coming in. Early in the season Conley was terrible that was the bigger effect on the team than Ingles needing to play with Gobert. We saw later in the season and in the playoffs that was not the case. Ingles does get the most assists to Gobert but its a pretty low number at 1.3 per game. Number 2 on that list is to Bojan at 0.9. But on the flip side Gobert gets most of his assists to Bojan.

Last year Ingles passed the ball the most to Favors, I think that was a much better role for Ingles. He played a lot more with the second unit and excelled there. This year we just didnt have anyone to pass the ball too. This more points to needing better backup bigs than an argument to start Ingles.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
Joe has been almost unplayable at times in the playoffs last 2 years. His defense has slipped a lot and he wont shoot open shots and kills our offense with those. Bojan creates more for himself on offense, scores more points, spaces the floor better, gets to the FT line more, and his defense is about the same now. Ingles passes better but not enough to make up for the large gap in offense that Bojan gives us.

I like Ingles but he just does not seem to care about basketball as much and father time is catching up with him. I think he needs to move to the bench full-time next year or we will struggle. That said I hope we get someone like Favors who he can play the pick and roll with. He was much better with Favors than Gobert.

Link below but Bojan had a better net rating for our team in the regular season. He was 2nd behind Gobert. Bojan also had a better player impact estimate. He was 3rd behind Gobert and Mitchell. We didnt get to see Bojan in the playoffs with this team I doubt he would have regressed as much as Ingles did. Also people are remembering Bojan towards the end of the season when he was playing through his injury that was effecting his game.

I also think you are equating Ingles not starting and Conley coming in. Early in the season Conley was terrible that was the bigger effect on the team than Ingles needing to play with Gobert. We saw later in the season and in the playoffs that was not the case. Ingles does get the most assists to Gobert but its a pretty low number at 1.3 per game. Number 2 on that list is to Bojan at 0.9. But on the flip side Gobert gets most of his assists to Bojan.

Last year Ingles passed the ball the most to Favors, I think that was a much better role for Ingles. He played a lot more with the second unit and excelled there. This year we just didnt have anyone to pass the ball too. This more points to needing better backup bigs than an argument to start Ingles.
Seems like a really long answer to a really simple, quantified question.

Ingles has a better BPM, VORP, and WS/48. If we’re talking about winning games and not who’s better at scoring those are some indicators

If you can’t plainly see how well Ingles plays with Gobert and how much Gobert and everyone else benefits when they play together by now then I do not know what to tell you. It should also be noted that the aforementioned stats include Joe’s absolutely abysmal start to the season, and that he has the highest AST% and assist ratio on the team.

Lastly, the team had more good scorers (“players to pass to”) than anytime in living memory. We didn’t have depth/our bench was pure garbage (until we got Clarkson), we had too many mouths to feed in our main lineups when healthy, and the Jazz played bad defense.
 
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Ron Mexico

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Contributor
Seems like a really long answer to a really simple, quantified question.

Ingles has a better BPM, VORP, and WS/48. If we’re talking about winning games and not who’s better at scoring those are some indicators

If you can’t plainly see how well Ingles plays with Gobert and how much Gobert and everyone else benefits when they play together by now then I do not know what to tell you. It should also be noted that the aforementioned stats include Joe’s absolutely abysmal start to the season, and that he has the highest AST% and assist ratio on the team.

Lastly, the team had more good scorers (“players to pass to”) than anytime in living memory. We didn’t have depth/our bench was pure garbage (until we got Clarkson), we had too many mouths to feed in our main lineups when healthy, and the Jazz played bad defense.
I gave other indicators that are much more applicable to winning than those stats, thats a very direct quantified answer. But the numbers you gave are advanced numbers that favor Ingles and have some merit. However come playoff time Ingles has not been helpful the last couple years.

Ingles was not great with Gobert in the playoffs this year or last. Last year he was only good in the playoffs with Favors. Ingles has been very bad the last 2 years. 3 of Ingles 4 playoff seasons have been really bad. Ingles is better in the regular season when defenses are not clamped down.

Also Ingles played much much better in the 2nd unit with Favors than he has with Gobert ever in his career. Your argument for a weak bench and too many players needing the ball in their hands is more reason for Ingles to be on the bench not less. He takes the ball out of better players hands in the starting unit. Also when Conley started playing well he filled that role much better than Ingles. If Conley is here I would rather him have the ball in his hands with the second unit and Mitchell with the first.
 

SCS

Well-Known Member
- Point of attack defense
- Positional size/athleticism
- Bench depth/versatility
- Defensive disruptors (need to generate more steals, blocks and deflections)

Those are the biggest needs imo.
 

cowhide

Well-Known Member
Jazz need to improve their bench with more athleticism and guys who can and are willing to score some. I love Joe but he has disappeared in the playoffs the last two years. He was passing out open shots. I think he would do better with the second team as the main ball handler. You have to give him some guys to pass the ball to on the second unit. Clarkson is one but they need more. I think Royce needs to go to the bench too. Jazz need more depth, defense, athleticism and still have most guys be about to score everyone once in a while.
 

Eminence

Well-Known Member
Think there's any potential move with Milwaukee around Conley for Bledsoe+?

I'd still love to sign Favors to our exception if that's enough.

Mitchell/Clarkson
Bledsoe/Clarkson
Royce/Ingles
Bojan/Ingles
Gobert/Favors

Sounds kinda nice to me, whatever else came back from Milwaukee to balance that trade along with our current young guys to fill out the depth chart.
 
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Conley/Mudiay
Mitchell/Ingles
Bogdanovich/Oni
O’Neale/Niang/Brantley
Gobert/Bradley
(I’ve left out some other names of course).

When I look at this roster, some things are made plainly clear:

1) our PF rotation is,,,,horrendous.
2) we need to re-sign Jordan Clarkson
3) we need a very strong defensive 1/2/3, as opposed to more of a defensive forward.
There’s been lots of commotion for another “3 and D” wing— personally I think we have this in Royce and we already have a big time scorer in Bojan. Our money should be going into guards and PFs. Bradley is fine, but an idea may be to cut him loose and sign Favors.
In the west,next year I don't know if that team even makes the playoffs. It's going be slugfeast next year because the top four this year will all be back plus Warriors return and Mavs will be year older.SuNs, Wolves,Jazz,Kings,Pelicans be fighting for two spots. That's five teams for two spots. That roster isn't going get it done
 

NAOS

Well-Known Member
Just so we’re clear, one of the biggest reasons I want Wood on the Jazz is because he looks like he can play next to Rudy AND behind him. That he could be a fallback in case the relationship with Rudy ends in the next year is a huge bonus, but we need Rudy.

I also just get the gut feeling Rudy is not getting the supermax for whatever that is worth.

Now let’s find a way to dump Ed and Tony, get Conley to sign a 3-year $55 million deal, go get Wood, and send our best wishes to Clarkson to make the money work. Think $15 million a year gets it done?
That Conley deal you just proposed made me throw up in my mouth a little.

or a lot.
 

NAOS

Well-Known Member
- Point of attack defense
- Positional size/athleticism

- Bench depth/versatility
- Defensive disruptors (need to generate more steals, blocks and deflections)

Those are the biggest needs imo.
Pretty hard to do with your boy Condiddley in the starting lineup.
 
Think there's any potential move with Milwaukee around Conley for Bledsoe+?

I'd still love to sign Favors to our exception if that's enough.

Mitchell/Clarkson
Bledsoe/Clarkson
Royce/Ingles
Bojan/Ingles
Gobert/Favors

Sounds kinda nice to me, whatever else came back from Milwaukee to balance that trade along with our current young guys to fill out the depth chart.
That's a smh trade. Conley is vast better player compared to Bledsoe
Fair point for sure. I think NO would bring him back at more than BAE though.

I think the minimum that Favs takes is like 3/20M or he gets a one year 10M from someone. If he went 2/7.5M you take that all damn day of course. That's Tony Bradley money. If his market completely dried up and he did 2/10M with a player option on second year I'd be fairly shocked.
My sources say Favors going end up back with the Nets
 
That Conley deal you just proposed made me throw up in my mouth a little.

or a lot.
Same people who rip conley this year I hope are ready to eat some crow next year. It was his first year and a brand new system. Some of y'all expect instant gratification and not patient enough to wait. Just wait and see. My husband is a nuggets fan , I know we make an odd pair, and he was always upset about how fans treated Gary harris and they learned against utah he said on just how important Harris is to a winning team
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
That Conley deal you just proposed made me throw up in my mouth a little.

or a lot.
Yeah. It comes with some strings attached in my fantasy (that he is exclusively a super-sub that only ends games when it's working very well), and it is rooted in the basic idea that such a move would create cap this year and that is probably more plausible than us finding a team to absorb most of his money.
 

Catchall

Well-Known Member
2019 Prediction Contest Winner
To get to the next level, the Jazz need an athletic, two-way, triple-threat wing -- a guy who can average 18/6/5, shoot 39% from 3pt with volume, and defend 2 or 3 positions. Kind of like the All Star version of Gordon Hayward.

Ingles and Royce should probably both come off the bench.
 

infection

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
To get to the next level, the Jazz need an athletic, two-way, triple-threat wing -- a guy who can average 18/6/5, shoot 39% from 3pt with volume, and defend 2 or 3 positions. Kind of like the All Star version of Gordon Hayward.

Ingles and Royce should probably both come off the bench.
Closest thing in reason is OPJ.
 

Catchall

Well-Known Member
2019 Prediction Contest Winner
Closest thing in reason is OPJ.
If the Jazz can acquire OPJ in a trade that sends out Conley, and they think OPJ is healthy enough, that wouldn't be a bad move. I think to really be contenders though the Jazz need someone who performs at a higher level. OPJ has been a 13/6/2 guy when he's been healthy.
 

Catchall

Well-Known Member
2019 Prediction Contest Winner
Think there's any potential move with Milwaukee around Conley for Bledsoe+?

I'd still love to sign Favors to our exception if that's enough.

Mitchell/Clarkson
Bledsoe/Clarkson
Royce/Ingles
Bojan/Ingles
Gobert/Favors

Sounds kinda nice to me, whatever else came back from Milwaukee to balance that trade along with our current young guys to fill out the depth chart.
I don't think Bledsoe is the answer. He's not a reliable enough shooter, and even though he's tough defensively, his size holds him back. His athleticism has slipped in recent years.
 

infection

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
If the Jazz can acquire OPJ in a trade that sends out Conley, and they think OPJ is healthy enough, that wouldn't be a bad move. I think to really be contenders though the Jazz need someone who performs at a higher level. OPJ has been a 13/6/2 guy when he's been healthy.
And I think that’s fine. I think the angle you need to look at this from is, down the stretch, who’s better to have on the floor: OPJ or Royce? We’ve got two guys this year who are 20 PPG scorers. We added another guy off the bench who drops the same scoring rate as Bojan (assuming we can re-sign him). Obviously Denver’s defense sucks, but we didn’t have a problem (in general) scoring. And that was without Bojan. Putting OPJ on the floor over Royce gives you a guy who brings some offensive value and is a legit spacer and not afraid to shoot. Subbing Conley for Bojan I think is also helpful because he demands more attention and Bojan/Mitchell is less redundant and duplicative than Conley/Mitchell.
 
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