My argument for the death penalty...

[Hopper]

You know seeking the death penalty and the actual execution costs more than incarcerating a prisoner for life right?

Naw, wrong, Baby. Talkin for my own damn self, I aint knowwin that. I duz hears-tells that on average it costs $40-50,000 a year, per prisoner, to keep they sorry *** though. That would be, like, $1 million every 20-25 years. Where ya see that?

 

[Hopper]

It is inherently speculative...an educated guess is still, inherently, a guess.

I spoze if I axxed 1,000 peoples to guess a number between 1 and 100, they would all "guess" 13, eh, Kicky?

"The current medical consensus is that life does survive, for a period of roughly thirteen seconds, varying slightly depending on the victim's build, health and the immediate circumstances of the decapitation. The simple act of removing a head from a body is not what kills the brain, rather, it is the lack of oxygen and other important chemicals provided in the bloodstream....the second question is 'how long does the victim remain aware?' While the brain remains chemically alive, consciousness can cease immediately, caused by the loss of blood pressure...If that weren't to happen immediately, an individual could in theory remain self-aware for part of the thirteen-second period."

LINK

Pure speculation, ya figure?

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Naw, wrong, Baby. Talkin for my own damn self, I aint knowwin that. I duz hears-tells that on average it costs $40-50,000 a year, per prisoner, to keep they sorry *** though. That would be, like, $1 million every 20-25 years. Where ya see that?

Stats suck.

https://www.ccfaj.org/rr-dp-official.html

"Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present system ($137 million per year), the present system after implementation of the reforms ... ($232.7 million per year) ... and a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty ($11.5 million)." - 2008

 

[sirkickyass]

I spoze if I axxed 1,000 peoples to guess a number between 1 and 100, they would all "guess" 13, eh, Kicky?

"The current medical consensus is that life does survive, for a period of roughly thirteen seconds, varying slightly depending on the victim's build, health and the immediate circumstances of the decapitation. The simple act of removing a head from a body is not what kills the brain, rather, it is the lack of oxygen and other important chemicals provided in the bloodstream....the second question is 'how long does the victim remain aware?' While the brain remains chemically alive, consciousness can cease immediately, caused by the loss of blood pressure...If that weren't to happen immediately, an individual could in theory remain self-aware for part of the thirteen-second period."

LINK

Pure speculation, ya figure?

All completely irrelevant to the question as to whether or not the guillotine is painful.

 

[Hopper]

Stats suck.

https://www.ccfaj.org/rr-dp-official.html

Hmm, that site don't really take me to nuthin, but it does have a "download report" thang to click there, so I done clicked on it. So far, I seen this:

"A performance audit report prepared for the State of Kansas in 2003 compared the average cost of
cases in which a death sentence was imposed ($1.2 million) with the average cost of murder cases in which the death penalty was not sought ($.7 million)."

I aint so good at no math, er nuthin, but that seems to be an extry cost of bout half a million.

It also say this here (about California), which is just plumb stoopid:

"the Department of Corrections estimate that confinement on death row adds $90,000 per year to the cost of confinement beyond thenormal cost of $34,150."

Just cause a guy "spends" 3 million dollars for, say, a candy bar, don't mean a candy bar "costs" $3 million, see what I'm gittin at?

Why should it cost 4 times as much to keep death row guy as any other guy? Are they especially hungry, er sumthin, I wonder?

Course, either way, they aint there long.

 

[Hopper]

All completely irrelevant to the question as to whether or not the guillotine is painful.

Ya think that's the onliest question? Heh. Ya sayin if a guy loses consciousness instantly, he still feels pain, that the idea? Or is it that he might feels 2 seconds of pain, or what? Is it your position that anyone who dies with 2 seconds of pain has suffered an "inhumane" death, or what? Most non-criminals should have it so good, eh?

 

[billyshelby]

Stats suck.

https://www.ccfaj.org/rr-dp-official.html

Good find Peterz. I haven't had a chance to read it thoroughly but, unlike aint, I found the part you referred to in about 30 seconds. So abolishing the death penalty is both right AND cheaper. I would have settled for just right.

 

[sirkickyass]

Ya think that's the onliest question? Heh. Ya sayin if a guy loses consciousness instantly, he still feels pain, that the idea? Or is it that he might feels 2 seconds of pain, or what? Is it your position that anyone who dies with 2 seconds of pain has suffered an "inhumane" death, or what? Most non-criminals should have it so good, eh?

You might want to get who you're arguing with straight. My only contention in this entire thread has been that we don't know how long someone is concious after being guillotined (your own link creates a range of 0 to 13 seconds, and acknowledges the real answer is probably "it depends") or how painful it is.

I've had no part in any discussion about what is inhumane. For all you know I support capital punishment by slow drowning.

 

[Hopper]

My only contention in this entire thread has been that we don't know how long someone is concious after being guillotined (your own link creates a range of 0 to 13 seconds, and acknowledges the real answer is probably "it depends") or how painful it is.

I took (at least one of) your claim(s) to be that any estimate of how long a person is conscious is "inherently speculative," eh, Kicky?

Like, mebbe a head could lay around in a basket for a few hours, or a few days, just thinkin about it's all-in-all, er sumthin, ya know? Does your objection revolve around miliseconds, that it?

 

[Hopper]

Just cause a guy "spends" 3 million dollars for, say, a candy bar, don't mean a candy bar "costs" $3 million, see what I'm gittin at?

Why should it cost 4 times as much to keep death row guy as any other guy? Are they especially hungry, er sumthin, I wonder?

If ya aint in some wasteful, candyass state like California, but in a sensible state like Kansas, for example, thangs can be a little different, eh?:


"The costs of carrying out (i.e. incarceration and/or execution) a death sentence were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case."

https://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

 

[sirkickyass]

 

[Hopper]

All completely irrelevant to the question as to whether or not the guillotine is painful.

The post you quoted, and are responding to, there had nuthin to do with "pain." It was addressed to the issue of what a "guess" and "speculation" is.

If ya ax me, it is just more of your sophistry; an attempt, by virtue of dubious definition, to change form into substance. Callin sumthin a "guess" don't make it a guess, and I spoze I give MD's credit for knowin a little more than you do. I didn't know that every medical diagnosis was merely a "guess," ya know?