My hot take on what I'd do in the off-season.

UtahJazz32

Well-Known Member
Why do we spend so much time talking about Royce when he's always hustling, always playing defense, always rebounding, and doesn't take bad shots?

Conley is the major elephant in the room. Next season, Conley is set to make almost 5X as much as Royce. We don't win or lose any series because of Royce and his contract. We lost this last series because Conley. We would have been better with Crowder, Korver, Grayson, Brandon Clarke, and more money we could have spent elsewhere.

We can debate Royce's value all day, but what does it really matter? He's not the issue.
Those 3s not shot could have increased our point total, those defensive stops could have helped us win. That really matters man
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Those 3s not shot could have increased our point total, those defensive stops could have helped us win. That really matters man
Of course I want him to be better. I just don't see why he's such a point of concern. A guy that's supposed to be our 6th or 7th best player who will be paid like our 6th or 7th best player isn't supposed to be the scapegoat.

Rudy needs to outplay or at least limit his counterpart - didn't happen
Don needs to dominate offensively - it happened overall but not enough the last 3 games
Conley needs to help on defense and play exceptionally well on offense to live up to his contract - only happened one or two playoff games.
Bojan needs to spread the floor and play decent defense - he wasn't even there.
Ingles help on defense and hit open 3's - this didn't happen enough
Clarkson needs to score in bunches off the bench - this didn't happen enough
Royce needs to help limit the other team's best wing and hit the occasional 3 - this didn't happen enough
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
Those 3s not shot could have increased our point total, those defensive stops could have helped us win. That really matters man
Royce is a victim of the team's depth problem. He is being asked to do too much and often times has to matchup against SFs or even PFs that are much bigger than him. Not to mention his contract extension won't start until next season. He is only paid 1.3mil this year and has to guard 1-4 because we gave up 4 players in depth to acquire Conley.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Royce is a victim of the team's depth problem. He is being asked to do too much and often times has to matchup against SFs or even PFs that are much bigger than him. Not to mention his contract extension won't start until next season. He is only paid 1.3mil this year and has to guard 1-4 because we gave up 4 players in depth to acquire Conley.
A perfect post
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
A perfect post
just imagine a Jazz team that added Bojan and a player off of that 23# pick without pulling the Conley trade.

In last season's playoffs, We limited Harden(who averaged 36 a game in the regular season) to only 27 a game on 37% shooting and the entire Hou team to 43% shooting. And G3-G5 were all awfully close. Have we had someone like Bojan who can hit those wide open 3's and help us improve from that woeful 29% three point shooting, we could've have had a complete different series.

But now having Conley and his buddies ED(add Jeff Green in there too) instead of Favs/Crowder/Rubio, we can forget about stopping Harden or the Rockets. All we can do is to pray every night that opposition guards won't pick n roll the **** out of us and drop another 50.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
just imagine a Jazz team that added Bojan and a player off of that 23# pick without pulling the Conley trade.

In last season's playoffs, We limited Harden(who averaged 36 a game in the regular season) to only 27 a game on 37% shooting and the entire Hou team to 43% shooting. And G3-G5 were all awfully close. Have we had someone like Bojan who can hit those wide open 3's and help us improve from that woeful 29% three point shooting, we could've have had a complete different series.
I makes me sick how much we gave up for Mike Conley. We will regret that deal more than giving Ostertag top dollar during the Stock and Malone prime years.
 

Ron Mexico

Well-Known Member
Contributor
This is where logic falls right out the window.

Royce had an awful series, but still - he is better than Conley on one entire side of the court. If Conley had guarded Murray, it would have been worse. Just look at how bad it went from Royce to Ingles. Just imagine worse than that.

Conley had 2 good offensive games in the series (3 and 4). His game 6 was above average which was nice. Game 5 and 7 were horrid.

Conley makes 5X what Royce makes next year. This year, he made $30+ when make Royce was making peanuts. And Conley cost us all those players.
Conley does make me money but he is a much better player and worthy of starting even if he's a bad fit. Royce I don't think it's a starting level player. I don't think Royce played better defense them Conley in this series. Conley is much much better on offense. You can't just compare the salaries and expect players to be that much better. A little better is worth a lot more. I don't think his game 7 was horrid. He played hard but his shots weren't going down but he was running the plays and getting guys open looks. They also weren't hitting but he still got 7 assists that game. It's too bad our team was worn out at that point. But it shouldn't have gone to game 7.

I hope we can trade Conley for his sake and ours. If not I think we can make it work with him here and a few other changes. Our biggest issue this year was our huge misses on Green and Davis. Those seemed like solid deals but killed our depth. Also this biggest issue in this series was our wings. Royce and Ingles were not good again in the playoffs. I think Clarkson hurt us more then he helped as well. Things changed in the playoffs.

Conley was supposed to be our 3rd or 4th best guy for these playoffs and I think he was that. I think people had some expectation he would be a super star because of his contract but he was never going to be that. He was going to be what he has been most his career and he was that in the playoffs. He put up 20 ppg, shot over 50% from 3, had 5 assists per game, ran the offense, and hustled all game. He had a plus 23 net rating in the series. He had a top 10 offensive rating in NBA playoff history. I think he filled expectations for that series besides missing 2 games but I don't blame him for that.
 

Ron Mexico

Well-Known Member
Contributor
just imagine a Jazz team that added Bojan and a player off of that 23# pick without pulling the Conley trade.

In last season's playoffs, We limited Harden(who averaged 36 a game in the regular season) to only 27 a game on 37% shooting and the entire Hou team to 43% shooting. And G3-G5 were all awfully close. Have we had someone like Bojan who can hit those wide open 3's and help us improve from that woeful 29% three point shooting, we could've have had a complete different series.

But now having Conley and his buddies ED(add Jeff Green in there too) instead of Favs/Crowder/Rubio, we can forget about stopping Harden or the Rockets. All we can do is to pray every night that opposition guards won't pick n roll the **** out of us and drop another 50.
We still would have to give up players to get Bojan. We couldn't have just added him. Rubio sucked for us the last year, I have no regrets about letting him walk.

In the trade for Conley. Korver is done. The draft picks are useful but not that much for late picks. We really lost Crowder and Allen. Crowder was a good hustle energy guy. But he was a spot up shooter for us on offense and didn't shoot well at all.

I wish we had went after other players though. But to be honest I'm not sure who.
 

UtahJazz32

Well-Known Member
Royce is a victim of the team's depth problem. He is being asked to do too much and often times has to matchup against SFs or even PFs that are much bigger than him. Not to mention his contract extension won't start until next season. He is only paid 1.3mil this year and has to guard 1-4 because we gave up 4 players in depth to acquire Conley.
He isn't a worthy starter but an overpaid bench roleplayer. But yes Conley royally FD us up big time.
 
Of course I want him to be better. I just don't see why he's such a point of concern. A guy that's supposed to be our 6th or 7th best player who will be paid like our 6th or 7th best player isn't supposed to be the scapegoat.

Rudy needs to outplay or at least limit his counterpart - didn't happen
Don needs to dominate offensively - it happened overall but not enough the last 3 games
Conley needs to help on defense and play exceptionally well on offense to live up to his contract - only happened one or two playoff games.
Bojan needs to spread the floor and play decent defense - he wasn't even there.
Ingles help on defense and hit open 3's - this didn't happen enough
Clarkson needs to score in bunches off the bench - this didn't happen enough
Royce needs to help limit the other team's best wing and hit the occasional 3 - this didn't happen enough
Newsflash hun what makes good teams great is not only a talented couple guys up too but strong players at 6,7,8,9 spots. Not everyteam has a MJ and Pippen and I love Mitchell too but during playoffs you said he has accomplished more then MJ at same stage of career and dear that is just plain wrong. MJ had been a multiple time all star, was scoring leader and ROY. Donovan has won a dunk contest and dropped fifty in playoffs during a loss. That's only similarities between the two. Again no knock on Mitchell but MJ is the Goat. Maybe you could lower you expectations. The whole time a your post was crying about Jokic getting fouls called and illegal screens nyou tried blaming the refs for Jazz choking away a 3 to 1 lead. I understand the refs are bad these days but to blame them for blowing a three to one league makes me question how much you truly know about the game sweetheart
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
We still would have to give up players to get Bojan. We couldn't have just added him. Rubio sucked for us the last year, I have no regrets about letting him walk.

In the trade for Conley. Korver is done. The draft picks are useful but not that much for late picks. We really lost Crowder and Allen. Crowder was a good hustle energy guy. But he was a spot up shooter for us on offense and didn't shoot well at all.

I wish we had went after other players though. But to be honest I'm not sure who.
it was Favors who we gave up for Bojan. Rubio was instrumental in us deploying the bucks strategy to stop Harden last season. Yes he didn't shoot well but like I said Bojan could've helped us with that. Plus we still would be able to do the Clarkson trade so a roster of Bojan, Clarkson, Allen, Niang, Ingles and DM. That is enough shooting on the team to help us compete against any team while maintaining our defensive identity. We actually lost more than we gained both offensively and defensively in the Conley trade.
 
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Main problem dears with jazz is they are to one sided on offense. All they want to do is shoot threes like the Warriors. They lead league in 3point shooting which is nice when they are falling but come playoff time and defense steps up Jazz have Zero half court offense. Only time they do good in Half court is with Conley but half you want to run him out of town. Probably the fans who don't live in SLC and don't understand the dynamics of free agency with Utah.
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
Main problem dears with jazz is they are to one sided on offense. All they want to do is shoot threes like the Warriors. They lead league in 3point shooting which is nice when they are falling but come playoff time and defense steps up Jazz have Zero half court offense. Only time they do good in Half court is with Conley but half you want to run him out of town. Probably the fans who don't live in SLC and don't understand the dynamics of free agency with Utah.
Well, hate to tell you but Conley’s playmaking is vastly overrated because he spent his entire career feeding off of skilled big men like Gasol and Randolph who can shoot and make plays on their own. When has he made a defensive big like Rudy better offensively with his playmaking skill like CP3 has done with Tyson Chandler or Stockton’s done for Ostertag?
Let me tell you this much: rudy's number are way better when Conley's off the floor versus him on the floor.

Conley needs a skilled big man like Joker or Embiid around him to be effective.
 

Ron Mexico

Well-Known Member
Contributor
it was Favors who we gave up for Bojan. Rubio was instrumental in us deploying the bucks strategy to stop Harden last season. Yes he didn't shoot well but like I said Bojan could've helped us with that. Plus we still would be able to do the Clarkson trade so a roster of Bojan, Clarkson, Allen, Niang, Ingles and DM. That is enough shooting on the team to help us compete against any team while maintaining our defensive identity. We actually lost more than we gained both offensively and defensively in the Conley trade.
Lol, Rubio was not instrumental at all in that strategy he was terrible at it.

That team is worse than our current team. Losing favors hurt a lot more than anyone else. But that would have been okay if hadn't failed with David and green. We needed those to be rotation players, and his loss would not have been.
 
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