My hot take on what I'd do in the off-season.


Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Different strategies on being aggressive. Some businesses operate by leveraging assets and recognizing the need for debt utilization for growth. Risky, sometimes, obviously, but that's part of the game. Then you would have more conservative and cautious business types who don't make a move unless all their ducks are in a row. Obviously can be wise, as well. For instance, teams walking into free agency with no cap space may offer a max contract to a player, then figure out how to make it happen if/when they accept. The more conservative takes a look at where they're at and says "we don't have money/cap to offer this contract," and so the option is never on the table. Of course, having the cap is a prerequisite. But there's a paradox here because one would have to be unreasonably unwise to go out and create that cap room before having any assurance that the plan can come into fruition. So because they're not willing to make a decision to open a door of possibility (a reasonable option), that option can't be there. And because making an offer for something they don't have available at the time goes against their principles, it makes it an easy defense for the critique of "why not?" But, ultimately, the options may be on the table. We've just superficially refused to open the windows. This way we can be forced to stay within a certain defined course, while also laying claim to "our hands were tied, look at our situation, we had no options." This is a fine strategy until one remembers that this is all for a game that's based on competition, taking risks, and with the ultimate goal of coming out on top.

This is partially why I hope Miami wins it all. Riley walks into the deadline with no assets and no cap space and walks out with a chip. But, by all means, 'slow and steady.'
Would be his second title basically duct taping **** together too. I know they had the Big 3 years but that firs Wade title was really kinda put together on the fly with some interesting pieces.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Different strategies on being aggressive. Some businesses operate by leveraging assets and recognizing the need for debt utilization for growth. Risky, sometimes, obviously, but that's part of the game. Then you would have more conservative and cautious business types who don't make a move unless all their ducks are in a row. Obviously can be wise, as well. For instance, teams walking into free agency with no cap space may offer a max contract to a player, then figure out how to make it happen if/when they accept. The more conservative takes a look at where they're at and says "we don't have money/cap to offer this contract," and so the option is never on the table. Of course, having the cap is a prerequisite. But there's a paradox here because one would have to be unreasonably unwise to go out and create that cap room before having any assurance that the plan can come into fruition. So because they're not willing to make a decision to open a door of possibility (a reasonable option), that option can't be there. And because making an offer for something they don't have available at the time goes against their principles, it makes it an easy defense for the critique of "why not?" But, ultimately, the options may be on the table. We've just superficially refused to open the windows. This way we can be forced to stay within a certain defined course, while also laying claim to "our hands were tied, look at our situation, we had no options." This is a fine strategy until one remembers that this is all for a game that's based on competition, taking risks, and with the ultimate goal of coming out on top.

This is partially why I hope Miami wins it all. Riley walks into the deadline with no assets and no cap space and walks out with a chip. But, by all means, 'slow and steady.'
One thing about my flaccid offseason plan... I really do think John Henson is actually a solid backup option and I think he gets the minimum. The advanced defensive stuff looks really good on him and it lines up with the normal numbers as well. If you can coax NO into a sign and trade with Favs where they eat Ed and TB that might be a better option but I'd rather fill the need on the cheap and I think Henson is good enough.
 

FAILED STATE

Well-Known Member
Get Shaq Harrison or Torrey Craig, Kris Dunn, Denis Schroeder (in a Conley trade), and Favors. Re-sign Clarkson.

Not sure how we could get this done, but clearly the Conley trade would have to kick things off because we’d have to create a little room

Guards:
Mitchell, Schroeder, Clarkson, Dunn, Oni

Wings:
O’Neale, Ingles, Harrison or Craig, Bojan

Bigs:
Gobert, Favors, Brantley, Morgan, Niang

There’s enough defense in here to get us back into the top-5.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Nerlens Noel seems to have stayed healthy and kept himself out of trouble. Not sure if the issues around him would prevent us from going after him but he is extremely athletic for his position and very active... so according to DL we'd be interested.
 

infection

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
Get Shaq Harrison or Torrey Craig, Kris Dunn, Denis Schroeder (in a Conley trade), and Favors. Re-sign Clarkson.

Not sure how we could get this done, but clearly the Conley trade would have to kick things off because we’d have to create a little room

Guards:
Mitchell, Schroeder, Clarkson, Dunn, Oni

Wings:
O’Neale, Ingles, Harrison or Craig, Bojan

Bigs:
Gobert, Favors, Brantley, Morgan, Niang

There’s enough defense in here to get us back into the top-5.
The only way your plan differs from mine is OPJ instead of Schröder.
 

infection

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
Nerlens Noel seems to have stayed healthy and kept himself out of trouble. Not sure if the issues around him would prevent us from going after him but he is extremely athletic for his position and very active... so according to DL we'd be interested.
DL’s got a mini-camp where he’s ready to blow the socks off the league by finding a passable 18 mpg player off another scrap heap. Why go after Nerlens Noel when you can (kinda) find the dollar store version for the same price?
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
DL’s got a mini-camp where he’s ready to blow the socks off the league by finding a passable 18 mpg player off another scrap heap. Why go after Nerlens Noel when you can (kinda) find the dollar store version for the same price?
Fun Facts... We were dead last this year in deflections per game.... BUT... we made up for it by also being dead last in loose balls recovered.

Last year we were fairly high on deflections per game and middle of the pack on loose balls. We pivoted to hard towards scorers in Mike and Bojan... Bojan was at least really efficient as a scorer. If we aren't replacing any starters the bench guys need to be disruptive bulldogs.
 

homeytennis

Well-Known Member
Fun Facts... We were dead last this year in deflections per game.... BUT... we made up for it by also being dead last in loose balls recovered.

Last year we were fairly high on deflections per game and middle of the pack on loose balls. We pivoted to hard towards scorers in Mike and Bojan... Bojan was at least really efficient as a scorer. If we aren't replacing any starters the bench guys need to be disruptive bulldogs.
Some of the higher ranked GLeague defenders were SLC Stars: Morgan, Oni, NWG, Tucker, Brantley, Bluiett, Collinsworth and Pryor. I guess that shouldn't be surprising given their record and win in the Vegas tourney.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Some of the higher ranked GLeague defenders were SLC Stars: Morgan, Oni, NWG, Tucker, Brantley, Bluiett, Collinsworth and Pryor. I guess that shouldn't be surprising given their record and win in the Vegas tourney.
We should have given one or more of them more than a token shot at earning some time... not sure you can not make additions and rely on them going into the season.
 

Ron Mexico

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Niang was pretty neutral in this series by his net rating. Oddly Bradley was a big positive. But the blowout games might have really helped their numbers.

The worst player on our team as far as net rating was Royce.

Our defensive rating when Royce was on the court against Denver was 121.5. When Royce was off the court our defensive rating was 97.9. Was this because he matched Jamal Murray on the court?

Clarkson was also pretty bad numbers all around except for the 2 blowout games.
 

UtahJazz32

Well-Known Member
Niang was pretty neutral in this series by his net rating. Oddly Bradley was a big positive. But the blowout games might have really helped their numbers.

The worst player on our team as far as net rating was Royce.

Our defensive rating when Royce was on the court against Denver was 121.5. When Royce was off the court our defensive rating was 97.9. Was this because he matched Jamal Murray on the court?

Clarkson was also pretty bad numbers all around except for the 2 blowout games.
Royce is an overpaid roleplayer , he is fearful offensively when needing to take the crucial shot and is very much overrated defensively. He does shine every once awhile in non pressure situations.
 

Ron Mexico

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Contributor
Royce is an overpaid roleplayer , he is fearful offensively when needing to take the crucial shot and is very much overrated defensively. He does shine every once awhile in non pressure situations.
I agree the big problem is that he's supposed to be a good defender. I don't think he is, I think he hustles but that's it. If he is a good defender than he is paid okay. Passing up open 3s kills the possession. Ingles and Royce have to learn to stop that, especially in the playoffs and especially in big moments. If the other team is going to double or triple Mitchell then they have to take the wide open shot. If not you might as well hand the ball back to the other team.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
I agree the big problem is that he's supposed to be a good defender. I don't think he is, I think he hustles but that's it. If he is a good defender than he is paid okay. Passing up open 3s kills the possession. Ingles and Royce have to learn to stop that, especially in the playoffs and especially in big moments. If the other team is going to double or triple Mitchell then they have to take the wide open shot. If not you might as well hand the ball back to the other team.
Why do we spend so much time talking about Royce when he's always hustling, always playing defense, always rebounding, and doesn't take bad shots?

Conley is the major elephant in the room. Next season, Conley is set to make almost 5X as much as Royce. We don't win or lose any series because of Royce and his contract. We lost this last series because Conley. We would have been better with Crowder, Korver, Grayson, Brandon Clarke, and more money we could have spent elsewhere.

We can debate Royce's value all day, but what does it really matter? He's not the issue.
 

Ron Mexico

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Contributor
Why do we spend so much time talking about Royce when he's always hustling, always playing defense, always rebounding, and doesn't take bad shots?

Conley is the major elephant in the room. Next season, Conley is set to make almost 5X as much as Royce. We don't win or lose any series because of Royce and his contract. We lost this last series because Conley. We would have been better with Crowder, Korver, Grayson, Brandon Clarke, and more money we could have spent elsewhere.

We can debate Royce's value all day, but what does it really matter? He's not the issue.
Well for one hustle is nice but its not enough. But really the main reason I bring it up is because watching the games I thought he struggled a lot. Then looking at the stats later show he was the biggest negative on our team this series in net rating and a bunch of other stats. I am starting to think he is barely a role player let alone a starter. His salary isn't that big of a deal but the amount he is playing hurt us. I think it's reasonable to argue we could have won if he played less or if we had spent his money or kept some of the players you just listed instead.

We didn't lose because of Conley he played well. I didn't like the trade and I think if we can find a good trade we should move on from him but he was one of our better players this series.
 

Beer

Well-Known Member
Well for one hustle is nice but its not enough. But really the main reason I bring it up is because watching the games I thought he struggled a lot. Then looking at the stats later show he was the biggest negative on our team this series in net rating and a bunch of other stats. I am starting to think he is barely a role player let alone a starter. His salary isn't that big of a deal but the amount he is playing hurt us. I think it's reasonable to argue we could have won if he played less or if we had spent his money or kept some of the players you just listed instead.

We didn't lose because of Conley he played well. I didn't like the trade and I think if we can find a good trade we should move on from him but he was one of our better players this series.
He is so 1 dimensional, and even that 1 dimension is vastly overrated imo. He is an adequate spot up shooter if there is no one within 10 feet of him I guess. But his D, his calling card, has never been as impressive as it's been billed. Plus he can't dribble, pass, score, make semi decent decisions, get him on a fast break and there is a 100% chance he is dribbling it off his foot or throwing it into the 10th row.

Probably the most frustrating Jazz player to watch.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
We didn't lose because of Conley he played well. I didn't like the trade and I think if we can find a good trade we should move on from him but he was one of our better players this series.
This is where logic falls right out the window.

Royce had an awful series, but still - he is better than Conley on one entire side of the court. If Conley had guarded Murray, it would have been worse. Just look at how bad it went from Royce to Ingles. Just imagine worse than that.

Conley had 2 good offensive games in the series (3 and 4). His game 6 was above average which was nice. Game 5 and 7 were horrid.

Conley makes 5X what Royce makes next year. This year, he made $30+ when make Royce was making peanuts. And Conley cost us all those players.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
He is so 1 dimensional, and even that 1 dimension is vastly overrated imo. He is an adequate spot up shooter if there is no one within 10 feet of him I guess. But his D, his calling card, has never been as impressive as it's been billed. Plus he can't dribble, pass, score, make semi decent decisions, get him on a fast break and there is a 100% chance he is dribbling it off his foot or throwing it into the 10th row.

Probably the most frustrating Jazz player to watch.
He struggled defensively this playoffs but he's been good in the playoffs the two years prior and was key during the regular season. This is a bit too far for me. I think he didn't have the energy to give for the full 36 minutes and might be more of a 25-30 minute guy. He wasn't quite his normal level in the playoffs and I'm not sure if it was the matchup or something else.

I think he is better against the power wings... not the guys that are quick with the ball and that move around a ton of screens. IDK but I think Royce is a very good defender that had some struggles this playoffs and it definitely hurt us. He's still a good piece going forward.
 

Beer

Well-Known Member
He struggled defensively this playoffs but he's been good in the playoffs the two years prior and was key during the regular season. This is a bit too far for me. I think he didn't have the energy to give for the full 36 minutes and might be more of a 25-30 minute guy. He wasn't quite his normal level in the playoffs and I'm not sure if it was the matchup or something else.

I think he is better against the power wings... not the guys that are quick with the ball and that move around a ton of screens. IDK but I think Royce is a very good defender that had some struggles this playoffs and it definitely hurt us. He's still a good piece going forward.

I keep hearing what a great defender he is. But it doesn't pass the eye test imo. And who was the last good offensive guy he's locked up? IMO his negatives outweigh his positives. Unless like you and Ron said he get back to the 20 min off the bench role, then I could stomach his many many many **** ups.
 
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