utahjazzz

Well-Known Member
I really like both DM and BS. but lets stop comparing them because its not apples to apples.

Donovan is a true rookie, being scouted as the #1 priority, double teamed nightly, teams scheme specifically to stop him with the best defender stuck to him like glue nearly every night... Yet he's carrying his team on his back to the playoffs in a tougher conference.

Simmons had a year of many many things (trainers, chefs, best coaches in the world, playbook studies, film studies, luxuries) that real rookies do not have, while Donovan was busy studying for midterms. Simmons isnt carrying his team, he disappears in the 4th, and cant play in crunch time because he cant hit a free throw or a 3pt'r to save his life so teams can pack it in. Simmons is being carried by Embiid, and the '6ers barely have a better record and are barely in the playoffs in a weaker conference.

It isn't apples to apples to compare their stats. People just anointed Simmons as ROY before the season even began. It just takes time to shift that bias.
You just have no clue, buddy.
Simmons had many things
for a year? That is just bull. He did not play for a year, that is a huge disadvantage.
Players who have not played for a year would lose their shooting touch, passing skill, quickness, stamina, etc.
If redshirting the rookie year is good for the development of players, why don't more nba managers follow the same
method for healthy first year rookies? Remember when Exum came back from a year of injury break, he looked really rusty, it took him almost a year of nba season to rediscover his quickness and explosiveness on the court.

Team double teaming mitchell? The whole team of Ben's oppositions clogged all driving lanes so he could not drive and he still averages 17 pts a game.

When a player like simmons is averaging almost a triple
doubles and you are telling me he is not carrying the team? LOL. Ben is leading his team in assists, steals, shooting % and 2nd in scoring and rebounding. He is also the best defender in the 76ers lineup.

Simmons also does not have the luxury of having a good bench like Mitchell has.
The 76ers bench is really really bad and is probably the worst in the Nba
 
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Et tu Brute

Well-Known Member
This is kind of BS. Looking at pure stats Simmons wins fairly handily. I love Donovan because he can score and has no glaring flaws in his game, unlike Simmons. But it is a very close race and people seem eager to pick Mitchell despite the stats because he’s so fun to watch.

If Mitchell earns it (20PPG or so + playoffs, and or Simmons stats go down a bit or Sixers fall out of the playoffs) he’ll get it.
I agree with this, but what I don't get is this idea that Simmons isn't fun to watch. Mitchell and Simmons are two of the funnest players in the NBA!
 

Et tu Brute

Well-Known Member
So they watch Simmons mistakes and all, and only see highlight reels and great plays by Mitchell. Not necessarily a bad thing.
This. Mitchell did come up big in the last few minutes of the last two games (which is a monster atttribute) - but they don't mention anything about efficiency to kind of balance the argument.

I think if Mitchell gets it, it should be for his 'clutchness' and scoring leadership role. But to argue that somehow he is qualitatively and quantitatively the better player and that it isn't close - is ridiculous.
 

Et tu Brute

Well-Known Member
Well good news is besides the first month or so Mitchell has been much better and is well on track to score over 20 ppg if he keeps up at this rate and we will be in the playoffs.

Mitchell is leading the team to Wins. Simmons is a great player but not the leader of his team and shrinks when games matter in the 4th. Simmons stats are trending down and Mitchell keeps trending up. He surpassed him a month ago or so.

Simmons gets more assists but that is the system they are in and the position he plays. Our system is not built for 1 guy to get huge assists, look at Rubio. How many assists per game would Rubio have for the 76ers if he was their PG instead of Simmons?

Simmons gets rebounds but again it is his system. Advanced stats show they are all uncontested rebounds and the way they position him to get rebounds.

Mitchell is a vastly better scorer and far better at creating for himself. Then you look at the fact that Simmons plays in a faster pace team and gets more minutes. If you look at a PER 100 stats Mitchell is head and shoulders ahead of him. 10 more points per 100.

Simmons struggles against teams that are smart, he is easier to game plan for and he does not see the consistent double teams that Mitchell gets. Simmons gets the advantage of having Embiid doubled and far less attention. Mitchell is the one creating that advantage for the Jazz.

The both have advantages in stats but I dont think Simmons wins in stats handily. Its close but Mitchell is ahead now for anyone who watches both consistently.
I watch both all the time, and I think it's tricky - cause I am Australian but a fan of the Jazz :)

No in all seriousness, I agree with you that Mitchell is a beast in 4th quarters and I am happy for that to count significantly. But Simmons is routinely double teamed and the argument that the system suits his stat 'padding' is a tough sell - cause Mitchell routinely shooting 20 shots a night is also a product of the Jazz system which helps him to average close to 20.

I will be happy either way in all honesty - I can't lose.

If I was forced to make a call, I probably would give it to DM right now - but I think Simmons has the higher ceiling. Could they become the two best players in the NBA in 5 or 6 years time?
 

elan_prodigy

Well-Known Member
I really like both DM and BS. but lets stop comparing them because its not apples to apples.

Donovan is a true rookie, being scouted as the #1 priority, double teamed nightly, teams scheme specifically to stop him with the best defender stuck to him like glue nearly every night... Yet he's carrying his team on his back to the playoffs in a tougher conference.

Simmons had a year of many many things (trainers, chefs, best coaches in the world, playbook studies, film studies, luxuries) that real rookies do not have, while Donovan was busy studying for midterms. Simmons isnt carrying his team, he disappears in the 4th, and cant play in crunch time because he cant hit a free throw or a 3pt'r to save his life so teams can pack it in. Simmons is being carried by Embiid, and the '6ers barely have a better record and are barely in the playoffs in a weaker conference.

It isn't apples to apples to compare their stats. People just anointed Simmons as ROY before the season even began. It just takes time to shift that bias.
Lmfao.

"Lets stop comparing" next breathe runs two paragraphs of comparisons. Gtofh dude.

And everyone needs to stop replying to the troll. Its just Voldamort sitting at home with his broke *** leg stirring you all up.
 

sgjazzfan

Well-Known Member
So here is my argument for Mitchell.

First, he scores more points, and is by far the top scorer in his team. He is not playing PG and does not have the bail in his hands as much as Simmons, so he isn't going to get the assists. He also isn't 6'10 and has Rudy and Favors on his team, so he won't get the rebounds.

Do you really think a player should get ROY for getting 3 more rebounds? As far as assists go, the top 4 scorers around Simmons are scoring 24, 17, 15 and 13 ppg. For Mitchell, 17, 12, 12, 12 (with significant games missed from 2 of them). He also plays in a system that doesn't have as many assists per player (look how Rubios assists dropped).

Donovan has also gotten significantly better throughout the year. If you take out the stats for the first month, I don't think there is an argument. He's averaging 22.2 points a game.
 

Rubashov

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Lmfao.

"Lets stop comparing" next breathe runs two paragraphs of comparisons. Gtofh dude.

And everyone needs to stop replying to the troll. Its just Voldamort sitting at home with his broke *** leg stirring you all up.
could it be the return of Boris?
 

sgjazzfan

Well-Known Member
Another way to state it. If Mitchell and Simmons were switched, do you think it's more likely Simmons scores 22 a game or Mitchell gets 7 assists?
 

MilesDeep

Well-Known Member
I'm a Jazz fan so of course I pick Mitchell. Also, I think Mitchell will be one of the best ever, like Wade, but a better (more willing) passer. If I was a Philly fan, I wouldn't be happy if Simmons lost to Mitchell for ROY. Simmons' body of work is rather impressive and he is fun to watch. Fills up a stat sheet like a Lebron. Still, Mitchell it is.
 

utahjazzz

Well-Known Member
1. Stats wise : Simmons wins
2. Defense : Simmons wins
3. playmaking : simmons wins
4. perimeter shooting : DM wins
5. Scoring in the paint : Simmons wins
6. Passing : Simmons wins
7. Rebounding : Simmons wins
8. Athleticism : even
9. Hype : simmons wins
10. Popularity : Simmons wins
11. Upside : Simmons wins
12. Basketbal IQ and Vision : simmons wins

As you can see
Ben is better in every category, except perimter shooting. How the hell do you justify giving the ROY award to mitchell, unless you are biased and delusional jazz fans ?
 
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jope

Well-Known Member
8. Athleticism : even
Lmao

DM - 6’3’ - can hit head on rim


Simmons - 6’10’’ - can barely hit head on net


LSU lied so hard on his vert... they said he had a 41 inch vert. If he had that, at 6’10’’ his head should be 3 inches over the rim. His head barely gets net high on pretty much every dunk I’ve seen him make.
 

elan_prodigy

Well-Known Member
1. Stats wise : Simmons wins
2. Defense : Simmons wins
3. playmaking : simmons wins
4. perimeter shooting : DM wins
5. Scoring in the paint : Simmons wins
6. Passing : Simmons wins
7. Rebounding : Simmons wins
8. Athleticism : even
9. Hype : simmons wins
10. Popularity : Simmons wins
11. Upside : Simmons wins
12. Basketbal IQ and Vision : simmons wins

As you can see
Ben is better in every category, except perimter shooting. How the hell do you justify giving the ROY award to mitchell, unless you are biased and delusional jazz fans ?
Robyn?
 

jope

Well-Known Member
I'm a Jazz fan so of course I pick Mitchell. Also, I think Mitchell will be one of the best ever, like Wade, but a better (more willing) passer. If I was a Philly fan, I wouldn't be happy if Simmons lost to Mitchell for ROY. Simmons' body of work is rather impressive and he is fun to watch. Fills up a stat sheet like a Lebron. Still, Mitchell it is.
Wade averaged 5.5 assists for his entire career. Those are lofty expectations.
 

Noomskull

Well-Known Member
You just have no clue, buddy.
Simmons had many things
for a year? That is just bull. He did not play for a year, that is a huge disadvantage.
Players who have not played for a year would lose their shooting touch, passing skill, quickness, stamina, etc.
If redshirting the rookie year is good for the development of players, why don't more nba managers follow the same
method for healthy first year rookies? Remember when Exum came back from a year of injury break, he looked really rusty, it took him almost a year of nba season to rediscover his quickness and explosiveness on the court.

Team double teaming mitchell? The whole team of Ben's oppositions clogged all driving lanes so he could not drive and he still averages 17 pts a game.

When a player like simmons is averaging almost a triple
doubles and you are telling me he is not carrying the team? LOL. Ben is leading his team in assists, steals, shooting % and 2nd in scoring and rebounding. He is also the best defender in the 76ers lineup.

Simmons also does not have the luxury of having a good bench like Mitchell has.
The 76ers bench is really really bad and is probably the worst in the Nba
Donovan is ROY.

The fact that you play off the importance of sitting out an entire year to observe and familiarize yourself to an NBA organization like it had no impact on Simmons’ current play is ridiculous.
 

Ellipse

Well-Known Member
You just have no clue, buddy.
Simmons had many things
for a year? That is just bull. He did not play for a year, that is a huge disadvantage.
Players who have not played for a year would lose their shooting touch, passing skill, quickness, stamina, etc.
If redshirting the rookie year is good for the development of players, why don't more nba managers follow the same
method for healthy first year rookies? Remember when Exum came back from a year of injury break, he looked really rusty, it took him almost a year of nba season to rediscover his quickness and explosiveness on the court.

Team double teaming mitchell? The whole team of Ben's oppositions clogged all driving lanes so he could not drive and he still averages 17 pts a game.

When a player like simmons is averaging almost a triple
doubles and you are telling me he is not carrying the team? LOL. Ben is leading his team in assists, steals, shooting % and 2nd in scoring and rebounding. He is also the best defender in the 76ers lineup.

Simmons also does not have the luxury of having a good bench like Mitchell has.
The 76ers bench is really really bad and is probably the worst in the Nba
Did Simmons collect a paycheck from the Sixers last year? If so, then last year was his first year as a pro and he isn't a rookie this year.
 

utahjazzz

Well-Known Member
Did Simmons collect a paycheck from the Sixers last year? If so, then last year was his first year as a pro and he isn't a rookie this year.
The nba says he is a rookie this year because
he did not play a single
nba game before the 2017/2018 season. This is all that matters.
 
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