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Nelson Mandela Dies

UGLI baby said:
Did millions of people really die in the Civil War?

#whoa
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checking my facts, please stand by...

Okay, it was an overstatement.

Q. How many soldiers died in the Civil War as compared to other American wars?

Roughly 1,264,000 American soldiers have died in the nation's wars--620,000 in the Civil War and 644,000 in all other conflicts. It was only as recently as the Vietnam War that the amount of American deaths in foreign wars eclipsed the number who died in the Civil War.
war-casualties-no-border.png
 
Gameface said:
Okay, that's fine. Mandela was no saint. In a struggle for liberation from an unjust system he got blood on his hands.

That's not all that you're saying though. You're saying that dismantling apartheid itself was not worth the price paid. That the blacks in South Africa were better off under apartheid and that Mandela ruined it.

Security, peace and prosperity are noble ideals. If it comes at the price of apartheid or any similar unjust system of repression then I think revolt is justified, even at the cost of some of that security, peace and prosperity.
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Is that what I said? I don't believe it is.

I simply said that things aren't as good as people say they are. This isn't that difficult.
 
Hantlers said:
Is that what I said? I don't believe it is.

I simply said that things aren't as good as people say they are. This isn't that difficult.
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Okay, not how I read it but I'll let you speak for yourself.
 
(opening a can of worms)

What differences and similarities do you all see between South African Apartheid and Modern day Israel/Palestine?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xscq2nIKLHM
 
heyhey said:
(opening a can of worms)

What differences and similarities do you all see between South African Apartheid and Modern day Israel/Palestine?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xscq2nIKLHM
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*crickets*
 
Hantlers..... Dude shut the F up!!!!!

I have been to South Africa 5 times my Wife is a Zulu(hence my Tag)!!! She grew up in the Apartheid Government and trust me the things you are saying aren't full facts just stats used to paint a pretty picture of a horrible thing....

Was South Africa safer under Apartheid rule?? Yes if you were White!!!

The Apartheid Government separated people by race( white, Black, Coloured(anyone of mix race) and Indian) trust me I have visited Black, Coloured and Indian townships, compared to White suburbs and there is no comparison.

Non-whites could only go to certain places and could only work certain jobs and were often limited on their education pass grade school...

When non-whites would organize to get equal rights.... White police would enter townships and violently disperse crowds... It was rocks and clubs vs guns and assault vehicles!!!

So the white police would enforce this so called safety you refer to!!
 
Is unemployment higher now once apartheid was stopped or since Mandela took office..., Yes but Why?

Non-whites were payed horrible under apartheid... It's really easy to have a great economy when 90%, yes 90% of your countries work force is being paid peanuts and the 10% minority lives on the luxuries off the riches mined by a near Slave labor!!

So once Mandela took office and started giving the non-white workers a decent wage it did create a large unemployment, but the Apartheid Government was operating under a false economic state! Just like the South with Slavery!!
 
Also the Apartheid Government and its founders were sympathetic to Nazi Germany....... So ya!!
 
Hantlers said:
Multiple reasons for why things got worse. What argument am I making? Frankly, I'm sick of people acting like Mandela was some saint. Did he do some good? Absolutely. Did he do some bad? Absolutely. It would be foolish to ignore both sides. I'm not saying that he didn't do some remarkable things, he absolutely did, but I would be foolish to not point out that he's done some terrible things as well.
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I think the point others are trying to make is that things got better for black people after apartheid ended. They may have gotten worse for the white people, but a blanket "things got worse"statement does not address the wage differential or the living standard differential. While it may appear that things got worse, that might not actually be the case.

And what about all the unrecorded murders of black and otherwise not white people before the end of apartheid? How are we sure that murder rates have gone up?
 
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