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Never Trump

Gameface said:
You've tried to peg me as some kind of leftist. I absolutely detest this idea of team "R" vs team "D"

You'd be surprised by the fact that I don't hate conservatives. I will own up to the fact that I do have a very strong dislike and distrust of people who combine their mythological beliefs with their political beliefs, because for them politics becomes a battle of good vs evil, and it's acceptable to use whatever means necessary to root out and destroy evil.
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That's a very good distinction to make when we are speaking in currently defining terms. Every rational person knows "conservativism" has its merits as much as the liberal welfare side does. It's the clinging add-on agendas that, for one reason or another, those types tend to align with that brings a lot of cloudiness to the designations.

As an aside, I doubt I will ever understand why humanity tends to land in one camp or the other on a plethora of issues. Anyone have a clue? The closest I can come up with is "conservative" is associated with a hard ***, do it yourself mentality while "liberal" is associated with a fluffy feel good and failure mentality. I doubt that is the true underlying reason why humanity is split into binary groups that align on most issues as we do.
 
franklin said:
That's a very good distinction to make when we are speaking in currently defining terms. Every rational person knows "conservativism" has its merits as much as the liberal welfare side does. It's the clinging add-on agendas that, for one reason or another, those types tend to align with that brings a lot of cloudiness to the designations.

As an aside, I doubt I will ever understand why humanity tends to land in one camp or the other on a plethora of issues. Anyone have a clue? The closest I can come up with is "conservative" is associated with a hard ***, do it yourself mentality while "liberal" is associated with a fluffy feel good and failure mentality. I doubt that is the true underlying reason why humanity is split into binary groups that align on most issues as we do.
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Very interesting thought, I've asked myself that same question many times. A big part of it is again how many people are stuck in a certain mindset (in all sides of the political spectrum) as a self defense weapon, hard to let go of, to feel safer about the ever changing world we live in.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
This suggestion that Trump is behind some of the anti-Trump protests is becoming more and more common. It's a stupid suggestion to make without evidence.
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I think it's made from a position of cynicism, and the recognition that these events benefit Trump. Hard to see how they actually hurt him. That's not evidence. And it might all go back to the Plumbers of Watergate fame and just expecting every dirty trick in the book to be on the table. People are bound to think such thoughts. Whether the thought is stupid or not is in the eye of the beholder I guess. I don't subscribe to it with any kind of conviction, but I do think, " oh sure, why not?" when the thought is made to cross my mind.
 
Also, does anyone else feel that people are more polarized than ever in these elections? At least I've never witnessed anything like it before...
 
Red said:
I think it's made from a position of cynicism, and the recognition that these events benefit Trump. Hard to see how they actually hurt him. That's not evidence. And it might all go back to the Plumbers of Watergate fame and just expecting every dirty trick in the book to be on the table. People are bound to think such thoughts. Whether the thought is stupid or not is in the eye of the beholder I guess. I don't subscribe to it with any kind of conviction, but I do think, " oh sure, why not?" when the thought is made to cross my mind.
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If you believe that the acts of violence against Trump supporters help Trump, wouldn't you also believe that the insinuation by his opponents that Trump is behind this would help him even more? That's why I think it's stupid to even put that out there without evidence.
 
Red said:
Since the previous article I posted discussed justification for violence against the Trump candidacy, something that had actually never crossed my old radicalized brain, I always thought best use the ballot box and wait to see what obstacles a Trump Presidency actually presented to the survival of the Republic, reading the following was more unsettling still.

https://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/06/anti-trump-riots-and-the-war-over-liberalism.html
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What is this sentence from the article you linked mean:

It is the expression of a backlash on the left against liberalism — with all its maddening compromises and deference to the rights of the enemy — which fetishizes success as the by-product of cataclysmic struggle.
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colton said:
I'm as anti-Trump as just about anyone (heck, I started this thread). But protestors like this are far more fascist than they are accusing Trump of being. It's horrible.
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errr, right. the white dude who isn't threatened with deportation, or equated to being a rapist and/or criminal due to his physical appearance finds it "very fascist" when people violently protest against a political campaign that dehumanizes them.
 
guys true fascist movements were pretty brutal but it's a good thing that they didn't face violent opposition while they ascertained power!! I mean can you imagine how even WORSE that fascism would be!?!?
 
Jamezz said:
Also, does anyone else feel that people are more polarized than ever in these elections? At least I've never witnessed anything like it before...
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probably because America has finally had their more racist interpretation of Silvio Berlusconi run for office, and the Democrats responded why stacking the cards for a nepotist warhawk.
 
dalamon said:
errr, right. the white dude who isn't threatened with deportation, or equated to being a rapist and/or criminal due to his physical appearance finds it "very fascist" when people violently protest against a political campaign that dehumanizes them.
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Trump clearly doesn't believe that all Mexicans are rapists. That's just the way that people who oppose him choose to interpret that statement. He certainly does give a lot of fodder to those who don't like him, though. Also, has he threatened legal citizens with deportation?
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Trump clearly doesn't believe that all Mexicans are rapists. That's just the way that people who oppose him choose to interpret that statement. He certainly does give a lot of fodder to those who don't like him, though. Also, has he threatened legal citizens with deportation?
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JoeBro acting like he knows what Trump "clearly" believes. mhm.
 
It's a bit insulting to think the average American doesn't understand the difference between regional ethnicity and radical religion.

I think (hope) we do.
 
franklin said:
That's a very good distinction to make when we are speaking in currently defining terms. Every rational person knows "conservativism" has its merits as much as the liberal welfare side does. It's the clinging add-on agendas that, for one reason or another, those types tend to align with that brings a lot of cloudiness to the designations.

As an aside, I doubt I will ever understand why humanity tends to land in one camp or the other on a plethora of issues. Anyone have a clue? The closest I can come up with is "conservative" is associated with a hard ***, do it yourself mentality while "liberal" is associated with a fluffy feel good and failure mentality. I doubt that is the true underlying reason why humanity is split into binary groups that align on most issues as we do.
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Most underrated post of the thread. Repped. It deserves its own thread. It would be interesting to attempt to have a rational discussion about your second paragraph. My conservatism is primarily because I do not believe that the government handles things very efficiently. I have a lot more confidence in the private sector. I've probably picked up certain conservative beliefs that I should examine more closely along the way.

I think that humans are, by nature, tribal. For most of our history this was a matter of survival. We often don't even realize we're doing it. Many people adopt a "we vs. them" mentality in most areas. This probably explains why people on either side hold similar beliefs even on topics that don't come down to the core reasons that they identify as conservative, liberal or whatever else.

Edit: I tried to rep but apparently I must spread some around.
 
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