Never Trump

[Red]

Did you read the article that I posted in response to yours that claimed that Obama is a narcissist? Did you think that it described him perfectly and shed light on his behavior? Why or why not?

No, I didn't read it. I do believe anyone running for that office has to have a very high opinion of himself. I think there are plenty of occasions where Obama has seemed full of himself. But I don't recall him patting himself on the back during times of national tragedy, as Trump just did. And I don't recall reading the characteristics of narcissistic personality disorder in the article I did post and feeling that what was described there applied equally to Obama. I don't recall Obama suspending the press privileges of any news outlet that simply disagreed with him, or printed descriptions that were accurate, but that he did not like, because it reflected poorly on him. I will read the article you posted, though. I'm not sure what difference it would make, though. Trump strikes me as a sociopath. Obama does not. There may be degrees of narcissism I should think. I would not argue with someone claiming Obama is narcissistic. That would not excuse the responses Trump has rendered which, in my opinion tell me he is a very sick man. But you can call me hopelessly biased if you wish. I guess I won't have a problem with that....

 

[Red]

Did you read the article that I posted in response to yours that claimed that Obama is a narcissist? Did you think that it described him perfectly and shed light on his behavior? Why or why not?

Could you repost the article? I found what I thought was the comment you are referring to, on page 40 of this thread, but no link to an article. You just mentioned reading one, but the article itself was not there. That's how I remembered it. I did not recall you posting an article at the time. You seem to be basically saying google Obama and narcissism and you'll find articles, just as I said I found the Trump article by googling "is Donald Trump mentally ill?". I took your intent to be saying people can find what they want using google or google news. In other words, people can find articles that will support confirmation bias. I just assumed that's what you meant. If you want to post a specific article, please do. I'll read it.

 

[Boris]

No, I didn't read it. I do believe anyone running for that office has to have a very high opinion of himself. I think there are plenty of occasions where Obama has seemed full of himself. But I don't recall him patting himself on the back during times of national tragedy, as Trump just did. And I don't recall reading the characteristics of narcissistic personality disorder in the article I did post and feeling that what was described there applied equally to Obama. I don't recall Obama suspending the press privileges of any news outlet that simply disagreed with him, or printed descriptions that were accurate, but that he did not like, because it reflected poorly on him. I will read the article you posted, though. I'm not sure what difference it would make, though. Trump strikes me as a sociopath. Obama does not. There may be degrees of narcissism I should think. I would not argue with someone claiming Obama is narcissistic. That would not excuse the responses Trump has rendered which, in my opinion tell me he is a very sick man. But you can call me hopelessly biased if you wish. I guess I won't have a problem with that....

This is so much crap. Obama uses every national tragedy to further his agenda instead of being compassionate. Also has a long history of requiring what questions can and cannot be asked from reporters. Trump simply tells them they cannot be there. No diff

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Could you repost the article? I found what I thought was the comment you are referring to, on page 40 of this thread, but no link to an article. You just mentioned reading one, but the article itself was not there. That's how I remembered it. I did not recall you posting an article at the time. You seem to be basically saying google Obama and narcissism and you'll find articles, just as I said I found the Trump article by googling "is Donald Trump mentally ill?". I took your intent to be saying people can find what they want using google or google news. In other words, people can find articles that will support confirmation bias. I just assumed that's what you meant. If you want to post a specific article, please do. I'll read it.

My bad. I thought I posted a link to one of the many articles that I found, but maybe I didn't. Regardless, there is plenty to indict both men of mental illness if that's how you see them. Here's an example:

https://drhurd.com/2015/11/29/is-trump-a-narcissist-what-about-obama/

I'm interested in your opinion of it. Unlike you, I don't like either of these men. I believe there are many better potential candidates available in this country, but most of them would never consider subjecting themselves to our political system. One good man who recently did was Romney. Look how the system ground him up and spit him out. The Obama campaign, the Democratic Party and the media attacked him relentlessly, making mountains out of molehills (the comment about women's names in a book, for instance). He chose to stay above the fray. He didn't spend time answering accusations he believed had no merit, and he didn't sling mud back the other way. He tried to focus on actual issues and policy differences. In retrospect it's pretty obvious which of those two strategies that voters respond to more strongly.

 

[Red]

@joebagadonuts, these three were at or near the top when I queried "Obama and narcissism."

https://drhurd.com/2015/11/29/is-trump-a-narcissist-what-about-obama/

https://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/charles-krauthammer-barack-obama-narcissist-110975

https://www.dailydiscord.com/default.aspx?resourceID=935&view=detail

I'm guessing we see what we want to see, because I don't believe it's even remotely close between Obama and Trump where their respective egos ate concerned. One of the things I regretted about Obama through his two terms was his unwillingness to even fight back, verbally, whenever attacked by the GOP. I came to judge him a weak President due to that perception on my part. I will have to give it more thought, I suppose. To answer your question, I don't know if he has narcissistic personality disorder. I'm not as convinced as I am regarding Trump. I've been spending 5 or more hours a day, 7 days a week, examining and talking about the Trump phenomenon, and that article posted nailed it for me. That, and his classic demagoguery convinced me he was not fit for this office.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

@joebagadonuts, these three were at or near the top when I queried "Obama and narcissism."

https://drhurd.com/2015/11/29/is-trump-a-narcissist-what-about-obama/

https://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/charles-krauthammer-barack-obama-narcissist-110975

https://www.dailydiscord.com/default.aspx?resourceID=935&view=detail

I'm guessing we see what we want to see, because I don't believe it's even remotely close between Obama and Trump where their respective egos ate concerned. One of the things I regretted about Obama through his two terms was his unwillingness to even fight back, verbally, whenever attacked by the GOP. I came to judge him a weak President due to that perception on my part. I will have to give it more thought, I suppose. To answer your question, I don't know if he has narcissistic personality disorder. I'm not as convinced as I am regarding Trump. I've been spending 5 or more hours a day, 7 days a week, examining and talking about the Trump phenomenon, and that article posted nailed it for me. That, and his classic demagoguery convinced me he was not fit for this office.

You're right. You and I clearly see Obama very differently.

 

[Red]

My bad. I thought I posted a link to one of the many articles that I found, but maybe I didn't. Regardless, there is plenty to indict both men of mental illness if that's how you see them. Here's an example:

https://drhurd.com/2015/11/29/is-trump-a-narcissist-what-about-obama/

I'm interested in your opinion of it. Unlike you, I don't like either of these men. I believe there are many better potential candidates available in this country, but most of them would never consider subjecting themselves to our political system. One good man who recently did was Romney. Look how the system ground him up and spit him out. The Obama campaign, the Democratic Party and the media attacked him relentlessly, making mountains out of molehills (the comment about women's names in a book, for instance). He chose to stay above the fray. He didn't spend time answering accusations he believed had no merit, and he didn't sling mud back the other way. He tried to focus on actual issues and policy differences. In retrospect it's pretty obvious which of those two strategies that voters respond to more strongly.

We were posting at the same time. It's true I don't dislike Obama; I just came to regard him as a weak President, because he let's his opponents in the GOP walk all over him without replying in kind. He ticked me off that way, because I remember Mitch McConnell stating after the 08 election that Republicans would not work with the man. That's exactly what happened, and he just seemed to spend all his time "above it all". I lost respect for Obama for that reason. But, as noted above, speaking in terms of egomania, and not being certain if that's quite the same as narcissism, it just does not seem close to me. But, one of those articles I just posted was by a former psychiatrist. I have to respect that, though the guy is one of the best known Fox News guest attack dogs against Obama, and I've always disliked him immensely.

Romney was/is a good man. I respect him denouncing Trump for what he sees in the man. I've felt all along that being concerned about Trump is not just a Liberal thing. Although I did not save it, and hence cannot remember the name, the very first article I came across warning about Trump and demagoguery was by a conservative blogger.

 

[Red]

This is so much crap. Obama uses every national tragedy to further his agenda instead of being compassionate. Also has a long history of requiring what questions can and cannot be asked from reporters. Trump simply tells them they cannot be there. No diff

We see what we want to see. At least to some degree, I believe that's true of all of us. It's the reason people talk past each other in these kinds of charged conversations, instead of being willing to consider they may be wrong at times. I am no different. Although I sincerely believe everything I've been saying in this thread, I respect your very different take. I accept that you may have a point and I may be unable or unwilling, or both, to see it through your eyes. We shall see. Right now, it will either be Clinton or Trump. For reasons I've gone over here, Trump worries the day lights out of me. I do not assume he will be our national nightmare the way some demagogues in the past have afflicted their respective nations, but I see that as a much greater possibility then I would if Clinton won. I have an unfavorable view and opinion of her, just not near as much as Trump. He is actively seeking to divide America. He did not start it, but he is making matters worse, and I don't believe we deserve that. ISIS is thrilled that Trump suggested Obama may be supporting ISIS. I see no good coming from giving solace to our enemies. They want to see a war between the faith of Islam and the West, and Trump is giving that to them. To me, that is providing comfort to the enemy.

 

[Red]

You're right. You and I clearly see Obama very differently.

If I had spent even a fraction of the time, over the past 7 plus years, examining Obama as I have spent in just several months dissecting Trump, maybe we would not be far apart. Some of this, for some people, devolves down to a visceral level. My wife can't even see Obama's image without launching into a tirade. Every single time. It's get very tiring for me.

Not that it really matters, but it might help to understand I am slack jawed at the rise of Donald Trump. It's only because I loved the subject of history and hence my reaction, from the time it became apparent he was not going to fade was "OMG, this is actually happening in the United States, and in my own lifetime. Is a demagogue coming to power here, and what will happen to this country if he does?"

But, what I've learned here is it is just as likely to come down to what people want to see. To me, it is as clear as can be that he is engaged in demagoguery, and it is clear to me that that has spelled deep trouble in other nations in other times. But, not everyone can even see that. They don't see that at all. They see a populist bringing a breath of fresh air, and the end of corporate influence.

 

[Red]

This is so much crap. Obama uses every national tragedy to further his agenda instead of being compassionate. Also has a long history of requiring what questions can and cannot be asked from reporters. Trump simply tells them they cannot be there. No diff

An article discussing Trump and the media. It's negative, so I don't expect you to be at all impressed, or to change your mind, regarding Trump, or regarding the "no difference" you see between Obama and Trump where the press is concerned. On the other hand, I have watched rallies where Trump has pointed to the cage where journalists must stay when attending his rallies, I have heard him, at the same time, call them "scum" as he points to them, and seen the crowd react in anger toward those caged journalists. This is quite beyond anything I have seen from Obama where the press is concerned. Like Mexicans, like Muslims, Trump transforms the press into still another version of "The Other", scapegoats for the crowds anger, in other words. I do find such behavior toward the Fourth Estate reprehensible.

https://mediamatters.org/research/2...nsults-guide-trump-s-war-against-media/210507

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

We were posting at the same time. It's true I don't dislike Obama; I just came to regard him as a weak President, because he let's his opponents in the GOP walk all over him without replying in kind. He ticked me off that way, because I remember Mitch McConnell stating after the 08 election that Republicans would not work with the man. That's exactly what happened, and he just seemed to spend all his time "above it all". I lost respect for Obama for that reason. But, as noted above, speaking in terms of egomania, and not being certain if that's quite the same as narcissism, it just does not seem close to me. But, one of those articles I just posted was by a former psychiatrist. I have to respect that, though the guy is one of the best known Fox News guest attack dogs against Obama, and I've always disliked him immensely.

Romney was/is a good man. I respect him denouncing Trump for what he sees in the man. I've felt all along that being concerned about Trump is not just a Liberal thing. Although I did not save it, and hence cannot remember the name, the very first article I came across warning about Trump and demagoguery was by a conservative blogger.

It's amazing to me how much differently you and I see Obama. I can't think of a single time he's allowed the Republicans to walk on him. He simply ignores their position and forces his down their throats. It's happened again and again. This is true of health care, budgets, foreign policy (particularly involving the terrorist problem and the Mexican border), etc. I guess the difference in the way we see him is that you agree with most of his policies and I disagree with most of them. I'm genuinely curious about examples of where he's allowed his opponents to walk all over him, though. It's interesting that you and I see him as weak for completely different reasons.

 

[Stoked]

An article discussing Trump and the media. It's negative, so I don't expect you to be at all impressed, or to change your mind, regarding Trump, or regarding the "no difference" you see between Obama and Trump where the press is concerned. On the other hand, I have watched rallies where Trump has pointed to the cage where journalists must stay when attending his rallies, I have heard him, at the same time, call them "scum" as he points to them, and seen the crowd react in anger toward those caged journalists. This is quite beyond anything I have seen from Obama where the press is concerned. Like Mexicans, like Muslims, Trump transforms the press into still another version of "The Other", scapegoats for the crowds anger, in other words. I do find such behavior toward the Fourth Estate reprehensible.

https://mediamatters.org/research/2...nsults-guide-trump-s-war-against-media/210507

The media does a fine enough job on their own. Yes Trump plays off that but the anger is already there.