What's new

New draft lottery system

A wheel system doesn't favor large market teams at all. It is completely fair and upfront. It favors SMART teams. Take a look at Brooklyn. They traded away Damion Lilliard, Derrick Favors, Enes Kanter and a piece that was used to get Trey Burke. The wheel system would still screw that team over. Same as New York.

What the wheel system does do, is it allows SMART teams to continue to reload, and small market teams to have access to higher rated players.

Take a look at the Jazz. Once they had Stockton and Malone, they were done. No more high draft picks, no more big FA acquisitions. The Jazz were screwed with no way to get better. They were a WCF team with no real hope to improve. Until they were lucky enough to steal Hornacek from Philly because Philly was too dumb to have him play SG.

Then, look at the Jazz again. They were able to draft Deron and sign Boozer, but then, once again, they were stuck. No way to get better. No way to get that guy to put them over the hump.

A wheel system allows SMART teams to get better. Imagine if Utah could have had Stockton and Malone and had a top 5 pick in the mid-90's. Wow. Think of it this way: A wheel system would allow Utah to do what SA did when they tanked for Duncan, without ever having to tank.

You mentioned that Miami could go over the cap to resign Wade and Bosh and you are correct. BUT, Miami is a small market team, and they do not have the TV deals that LA, CHI, NY, BOS do. They CAN'T go over the cap to keep those two. The tax penalties are too harsh for them. So, once every 29 years, there might be a chance that a team with a Jordan or LeBron would get the #1 pick. Big deal. What if you have LeBron on your team? Or what if you have Stockton or Malone and can add a #1 pick? WOW. Utah would NEVER get that shot.

A perfect example of this is OKC. They are the new Stockton and Malone. They are SCREWED. Especially when Wiggins/Embiid/Parker ends up in LA. Then next year Love ends up in LA. LA can always add talent. OKC can't. They have peaked and they now have NO way to get better. They can't attract a big time FA or afford them. IF they had a wheeled draft, and this fall they had the #5 pick, then there would be a chance they could compete with LA.

Yup, it sucks in a down year, and it would suck to get the #1 pick in that year (look at us and Kanter) but it would happen to everyone and the bad luck part is still there now.

Another FANTASTIC thing about the wheel, is that you know what you are trading for. We traded Deron for Favors (player), Harris (player) and two first round picks. One wasn't protected, ended up being #5 and won the #3 spot in the lottery. The other is protected and we will get this year. It will either be GS's first round pick, or if that picks fall under its protection, it will be two second round picks.

Now, Utah essentially traded Deron for Favors and the two picks. Those two picks could have been anywhere from the #1 pick to two second round picks. That is quite a risk the Jazz took in taking those picks. What happens if Utah traded Deron, NJ made the playoffs and GS was a top 6 pick this year? Then we traded Deron for Favors and crap. Luckily, we have gotten better than that, BUT how much better would it be for a small market team if they knew ahead of time what those picks were?

A lot better. A lot less risk for that small market team. Instead of maybe getting Harrison Barnes a couple years ago, we would know that we are getting the #8 pick. Instead of trading Deron for Favors and a first round pick and maybe two second round picks, we could have traded Deron for a #3 pick and a #8 pick. MUCH BETTER.

The wheel system is 100% fair for ALL teams with incoming players, and would completely help out SMART teams.

Until someone can show me a system that would allow Utah with Stockton and Malone to add Grant Hill, or OKC to add Parker to Durrant and Westbrook, the system isn't as good.

The reason why is because LA, BOS, NY, CHI, Brooklyn can always add superstars if they are smart. It's impossible for a small market team to do so without a wheel system.

If you can get past the initial, unlikely "what-if's" (and Miami getting better isn't a horrible "what-if". They are small market team. We WANT them to succeed.), then a wheel system just makes too much sense. The problem is, people don't want a fair chance to compete, they just want a way to hurt those more successful or in better situations than they are in.

Big markets always have unfair advantages when it comes to access to talent. A wheel system gives small market teams a way to have access to top talent as well.

The analytics and scouting are 100 times better than when Malone and Stockton were drafted, its really dumb to keep assuming the Jazz could get superstars at those spots nowadays. It's the backbone of your argument and it collapses without them, so not much more to say. But consider KOC and DL are both good, and have yet to get anything close to a superstar from two #3s, two #9s, and a #12.
 
The analytics and scouting are 100 times better than when Malone and Stockton were drafted, its really dumb to keep assuming the Jazz could get superstars at those spots nowadays. It's the backbone of your argument and it collapses without them, so not much more to say. But consider KOC and DL are both good, and have yet to get anything close to a superstar from two #3s, two #9s, and a #12.

It's not the backbone of my argument. My whole point is that the Jazz could have never had Malone.

The point is that under the wheel, Utah could have had this team:

Stockton, Nash, Andre Miller
Jon Barry
Grant Hill, Glenn Rice
Charles Oakley, Horace Grant
Hakeem

Show me a system where Utah can have that team and I'll listen.

My whole argument is Utah will NEVER have a shot at Stockton, Malone and Horny again without the wheel.
 
That is an excellent argument against the wheel. If your parker and you have a choice of going to the bucks this year or stay in school one more year and enter the draft one year later when the lakers have the number one pick what would you choose? The wheel system would mess with teams like the bucks or the jazz.

I'm okay with them staying in. We get to pick our employers, but they don't? There is LAL, LAC, NY, Brooklyn, Boston and Chicago. That's 6 out of 29. Not a big deal. And what happens when those six teams take Bowie, Oden, Milic, etc?

The wheel does NOT really benefit large markets as much as everyone says it will.

It benefits SMART teams.

It blows my mind that anyone would balk at a system that would give Utah the chance of this team:

Stockton, Nash, Andre Miller
Barry
Hill, Rice
Oakley, Grant
Hakeem

I'll let LA have Wiggins and Kobe if I can have that team. Because right now, LA is going to end up with Wiggins, Kobe, Love and possibly another max player ANYWAYS. At least this way I'll have a chance.

You guys complain about big market advantages, but you blindly think small markets can compete.

How many markets ranked in the bottom third of the NBA have won titles the last 5 years? 10? Ever?

Get over jealousy, and give yourself a chance to compete.
 
Also, I just listed off the six big market teams. LAC, Brooklyn, NY have all dealt away their top picks recently and most of those are top 3. It wouldn't benefit big markets as much as you think it would.

Remember, the wheel doesn't care about market size. It cares about smart teams. It benefits SMART teams.
 
I'm okay with them staying in. We get to pick our employers, but they don't? There is LAL, LAC, NY, Brooklyn, Boston and Chicago. That's 6 out of 29. Not a big deal. And what happens when those six teams take Bowie, Oden, Milic, etc?

The wheel does NOT really benefit large markets as much as everyone says it will.

It benefits SMART teams.

It blows my mind that anyone would balk at a system that would give Utah the chance of this team:

Stockton, Nash, Andre Miller
Barry
Hill, Rice
Oakley, Grant
Hakeem

I'll let LA have Wiggins and Kobe if I can have that team. Because right now, LA is going to end up with Wiggins, Kobe, Love and possibly another max player ANYWAYS. At least this way I'll have a chance.

You guys complain about big market advantages, but you blindly think small markets can compete.

How many markets ranked in the bottom third of the NBA have won titles the last 5 years? 10? Ever?

Get over jealousy, and give yourself a chance to compete.

Those two highlighted statements are contradictory. If the system gives the likes of LA a big time FA and a #1 pick by default, then the small market teams don't have a chance in hell to compete.
 
Also, I just listed off the six big market teams. LAC, Brooklyn, NY have all dealt away their top picks recently and most of those are top 3. It wouldn't benefit big markets as much as you think it would.

Remember, the wheel doesn't care about market size. It cares about smart teams. It benefits SMART teams.

It'll also benefit SMART players.


Which team do you think Wiggins would rather play for? The Bucks or one of LAL, NY, Chicago, etc? Wiggins in MIL is worth $100 million. Wiggins in NY is worth $500 million.


Actually, you don't even have to be smart to figure out which team you'd rather get drafted by.
 
I actually kind of like Mark Cuban's idea. The teams with the worst 3 records automatically get picks 4, 5 and 6. Teams 4-14 make up the rest of the lottery and pick for 1, 2 and 3. Everything after 6 is based on record like it is currently. Teams have to fight to get above the worst 3 line if they want a shot at the top 3 picks. Better basketball even from tanking teams.
 
I actually kind of like Mark Cuban's idea. The teams with the worst 3 records automatically get picks 4, 5 and 6. Teams 4-14 make up the rest of the lottery and pick for 1, 2 and 3. Everything after 6 is based on record like it is currently. Teams have to fight to get above the worst 3 line if they want a shot at the top 3 picks. Better basketball even from tanking teams.

I like this. And it would give fans of losing teams something to cheer for at the end of the season instead of just wishing it to be over.
 
I actually kind of like Mark Cuban's idea. The teams with the worst 3 records automatically get picks 4, 5 and 6. Teams 4-14 make up the rest of the lottery and pick for 1, 2 and 3. Everything after 6 is based on record like it is currently. Teams have to fight to get above the worst 3 line if they want a shot at the top 3 picks. Better basketball even from tanking teams.

I can live with this actually. It would make it competitive for the bottom teams.


It's kinda like the English Premiere League with teams at the bottom fighting off the relegation at the end of the season. It's almost as exciting as watching teams fighting to win the actual Cup.
 
Heard him talking about it and it was the first idea I've heard that would somewhat discourage tanking in the NBA. GMs would work harder to field a quality team and the players and coaches would still have to perform otherwise they're out of contention for a top 3 pick.
 
Heard him talking about it and it was the first idea I've heard that would somewhat discourage tanking in the NBA. GMs would work harder to field a quality team and the players and coaches would still have to perform otherwise they're out of contention for a top 3 pick.

On a second though...


The only issue is it would give better odds to teams who are in the #10-#14 range at getting the top 3 picks (teams that would have just missed the playoffs).


On that basis I'm going back to my bottom 10 teams all get equal 10% chance.
 
Top