No Answers - Is it Personnel or coaching?


LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
Our entire defensive scheme doesn’t work for the playoffs. It’s nice in the regular season though.
Here I don't think it's the scheme as much as lack of execution. We are always a step slow. This is another place where having the wrong personnel hurts us. We have known for 2 years now we need a long athletic Defensive-minded wing who can shoot the 3 at a passable clip and this is 2 years we haven't done a single thing to address that need, and now it is getting heavily exposed. We have no one who can hang with PG in any fashion at all, not even bother him really.

But even with the folks we have we are always a step slow. Our guys aren't communicating on switches, leaving big gaps, we are slow to help from the weak side, and we seem like we don't understand where we need to be and when. We are just so disconnected in defense it's creating a jumbled mess. And a good 80% or more of that is just plain execution. I think this is another coaching failure as well. Quin doesn't seem to be able to give the team the adjustments they need to make to maintain defensive intensity. When they look confused and lost on D, that is often a coaching problem and an unclear plan as to how to handle a new-look offense.
 


Ineptimusprime

Well-Known Member
Redundant to who? We have another 6'8" guy that shoots 40% from 3, can get his own shot, can post up and go at the basket, and is now showing some defensive versatility? Who?
He is not redundant at all. But if we swapped him for a defender first and foremost, who can shoot the 3, we would be money ahead.
I am not saying he is redundant to any individual player. We have all of those skills except for maybe post-up collectively from the other guys on the roster. We have NO one athletic enough to stay in front of anyone else on defense. That is a skill we desperately need. I just think we can absorb the loss of his skillset better than anyone else that has any trade value on the roster.

We don’t need one perimeter defender, we need multiple. One can be elite, and that is who we should trade Bogey to get, the others can be budget options. We need more lineup versatility. We are all in on what we do, and it can work when we are healthy and hitting shots, but we need to have contingency plans and guys that can defend when that isn’t working.
 
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White Chocolate

Respect All, Fear None
Contributor
Here I don't think it's the scheme as much as lack of execution. We are always a step slow. This is another place where having the wrong personnel hurts us. We have known for 2 years now we need a long athletic Defensive-minded wing who can shoot the 3 at a passable clip and this is 2 years we haven't done a single thing to address that need, and now it is getting heavily exposed. We have no one who can hang with PG in any fashion at all, not even bother him really.

But even with the folks we have we are always a step slow. Our guys aren't communicating on switches, leaving big gaps, we are slow to help from the weak side, and we seem like we don't understand where we need to be and when. We are just so disconnected in defense it's creating a jumbled mess. And a good 80% or more of that is just plain execution. I think this is another coaching failure as well. Quin doesn't seem to be able to give the team the adjustments they need to make to maintain defensive intensity. When they look confused and lost on D, that is often a coaching problem and an unclear plan as to how to handle a new-look offense.

This comes back around as not having the correct players for the scheme Quin wants to use. To best utilize your players you put them in a scheme where it utilizes their strengths. We also just don’t have the players to do the scheme like you said.
 

Max Porter

Well-Known Member
Folks, Mitchell is on a bad leg and Conley has been out. It’s injury. If those two were healthy we’d win in probably 6.
 

Revolution 9

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Even with a healthy Don and Mike this team is flawed. Yes I think it gives us a chance to get to the finals but this team's weaknesses are
evident more than ever.
 

MilesDeep

Well-Known Member
The personnel is definitely lacking, but game 5 was largely about effort. Knowing KL wouldn't play, our guys mentally felt like that it wouldn't be that hard and were already moving on. After absolutely incredible shooting, they still were only up five. Ingles is a poor defender, and even poorer at rebounding with not even modest NBA athleticism. Bojan has played hard on defense but is about average on athleticism and while he is frequently good offensively, it's not a net+ because he's a poor rebounder, a lousy help defender, and generally doesn't give effort of any kind once his man has beaten him. Royce has average NBA athleticism, is pretty strong, always gets the other teams best offensive option. Known as a defensive stopper in some circles, I've never seen it. Good for about one iso play every twenty games or so offensively. Donovan is hurt. Rudy is expected to cover everyone, stop all offenders that drive to the basket, challenge shots and still get all the rebounds while everyone else stands there and wonders why he can't. Occasionally, he has a bad game where he just is scared to commit and is stuck in no man's land like last night. The Jazz scored 111 points. This isn't about offense even though that was shaky as well with another impressive streak of misses. Our bench is a complete and utter disaster. Favors started slow, faded, and is currently going backwards. Niang forgot to show up at all, which isn't totally surprising considering his incredible talent and athleticism. Quin is getting outreached by TLue which is unforgivable. His substitution pattern/timing was written in stone and handed down by the good lord. The sad bench was handed down by devil Linsdey. Lack of cohesion, frequent lapses, and a clear inability to react when faced with different schemes is on Quin. He sucked last year, and past is proving future. Needs to be more vocal when the officials are giving the Jazz a beatdown which happened fairly often yesterday. Having said all that, Jazz in 7 if they give effort.
 

homeytennis

Well-Known Member
The personnel is definitely lacking, but game 5 was largely about effort. Knowing KL wouldn't play, our guys mentally felt like that it wouldn't be that hard and were already moving on. After absolutely incredible shooting, they still were only up five. Ingles is a poor defender, and even poorer at rebounding with not even modest NBA athleticism. Bojan has played hard on defense but is about average on athleticism and while he is frequently good offensively, it's not a net+ because he's a poor rebounder, a lousy help defender, and generally doesn't give effort of any kind once his man has beaten him. Royce has average NBA athleticism, is pretty strong, always gets the other teams best offensive option. Known as a defensive stopper in some circles, I've never seen it. Good for about one iso play every twenty games or so offensively. Donovan is hurt. Rudy is expected to cover everyone, stop all offenders that drive to the basket, challenge shots and still get all the rebounds while everyone else stands there and wonders why he can't. Occasionally, he has a bad game where he just is scared to commit and is stuck in no man's land like last night. The Jazz scored 111 points. This isn't about offense even though that was shaky as well with another impressive streak of misses. Our bench is a complete and utter disaster. Favors started slow, faded, and is currently going backwards. Niang forgot to show up at all, which isn't totally surprising considering his incredible talent and athleticism. Quin is getting outreached by TLue which is unforgivable. His substitution pattern/timing was written in stone and handed down by the good lord. The sad bench was handed down by devil Linsdey. Lack of cohesion, frequent lapses, and a clear inability to react when faced with different schemes is on Quin. He sucked last year, and past is proving future. Needs to be more vocal when the officials are giving the Jazz a beatdown which happened fairly often yesterday. Having said all that, Jazz in 7 if they give effort.
I would say coaching is the biggest issue. Quin has a system and he is going to ride that system until the reactor explodes. He is letting guys in the rotation get away with jackpotting around and playing in tuxedos. The third quarter last night and the first quarter Monday really pi$$ed me off. No effort, no boxing out, just lazy sloppy basketball. I know Spida is playing on one leg and we don't have Conley but there are other option on the roster. Give them a shot but they have to promise to play hard. What would Jerry do?
 

Ineptimusprime

Well-Known Member
Quin is in an impossible situation because of a combination of injuries and roster construction. He has no one to throw out there. He is left to choose between playing Miye Oni and Niang minutes and completely running the starters into the ground, resulting in dead Don. Quin is riding the system, because he has a roster that is constructed and capable of only doing that very thing.

People mention “adjustments.” What adjustments should he make? Had we had two more playable guys on the bench (say Desmond Bane or Torrey Craig), Quin could have tried some things.

You can’t make any conclusions about Quin’s coaching from this series due to roster construction and the compounding effect of injuries. Just isn’t fair.

This is all on bad luck with injuries and DL and Zanik. Period. You could make an argument that the injury issues are also partially on DL and Zanik, because Conley is an aging PG and was already a known injury risk when he was brought in.

Heads must roll, but not Quin’s.
 

Wes Mantooth

Well-Known Member
I agree with this 100%. He probably also has the most trade value of anyone the FO would actually consider trading. I think we need to flip him for an elite defensive player that shoots at least 36% from 3.

Any team could use a Bogey. His skills are just somewhat redundant here, IMO. He is a “cherry on top” type of player for us, and if we make the right trade with him, would not take a step back.

I see Bogey as the most likely significant move we make. The Sixers could desperately use someone like Bogey.

People would hate this. HATE it. And dude has been in a downward spiral for a few years. But...

Draymond.

I don’t think there’s any interest on the Dubs end but if we could sweeten the pot without sacrificing our 1sts like crazy, I’d consider it
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
This comes back around as not having the correct players for the scheme Quin wants to use. To best utilize your players you put them in a scheme where it utilizes their strengths. We also just don’t have the players to do the scheme like you said.
Exactly, if you don't have the players for the scheme you want to use, you should change the scheme. Quin is bad at that. He keeps trying to pound the same square peg into the same round hole. He can't change the pegs at this point, so he needs to find a hole that fits.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
Folks, Mitchell is on a bad leg and Conley has been out. It’s injury. If those two were healthy we’d win in probably 6.
If both teams are healthy I think Clips win still... it would be close and it wouldn't be this frustrating though. Honestly if Don is 100% last night we win and I'm not sure its close.
 

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