No Answers - Is it Personnel or coaching?
- Thread starter jope
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What is getting exposed here more than anything else is coaching. Yes we have injuries to deal with and first and foremost these being resolved would have the biggest impact on the team. But the coaches job is to maximize the hodge-podge he has to work with and Quinn is just straight bad at making adjustments. Look he can make big sweeping modifications to a point, but he has basically 2 game plans, and he always runs one of those, and that's it. And it has been exposed this series and shown that you can disrupt our 2 basic sets and all we do is double down and revert to hero ball.
I think he is also using the wrong personnel. Ersan could be giving some valuable minutes as a veteran with playoff experience and as a small-ball counter but he hasn't seen a single minute. While Oni, who looks more clueless all the time, gets close to regular floor time.
And you hear it when they tap into the coaches mic stuff too I noticed. He basically tells them "look they are heavily defending the 3, so you have to work harder to get a 3" and that's basically it.
Even with the injuries we have shown in stretches we can compete, but when they mix things up Quin's response of "try harder" does nothing, unless a bojan goes nuclear.
I think he is also using the wrong personnel. Ersan could be giving some valuable minutes as a veteran with playoff experience and as a small-ball counter but he hasn't seen a single minute. While Oni, who looks more clueless all the time, gets close to regular floor time.
And you hear it when they tap into the coaches mic stuff too I noticed. He basically tells them "look they are heavily defending the 3, so you have to work harder to get a 3" and that's basically it.
Even with the injuries we have shown in stretches we can compete, but when they mix things up Quin's response of "try harder" does nothing, unless a bojan goes nuclear.
Jazz are playing a type of Moneyball with great spot-up shooters playing off of drive-and-kick actions and pick-and-rolls. When the Jazz play against a team that has multiple long, athletic wings who can switch or hedge and recover to our shooters, they struggle. This happened when the Jazz played the Heat and the Grizzlies this year.
In this series, the Jazz have compensated by having their shooters spot up from even further out on the floor--several feet behind the 3pt line. Guys like Bogey, Mitchell and Royce have been able to do it pretty well. But guys like Georges Niang, who can't extend his range and can't really play at the level of speed and physicality, get rendered useless. Ingles has managed to remain somewhat effective, which is impressive.
In this series, the Jazz have compensated by having their shooters spot up from even further out on the floor--several feet behind the 3pt line. Guys like Bogey, Mitchell and Royce have been able to do it pretty well. But guys like Georges Niang, who can't extend his range and can't really play at the level of speed and physicality, get rendered useless. Ingles has managed to remain somewhat effective, which is impressive.
Our entire defensive scheme doesn’t work for the playoffs. It’s nice in the regular season though.
Here I don't think it's the scheme as much as lack of execution. We are always a step slow. This is another place where having the wrong personnel hurts us. We have known for 2 years now we need a long athletic Defensive-minded wing who can shoot the 3 at a passable clip and this is 2 years we haven't done a single thing to address that need, and now it is getting heavily exposed. We have no one who can hang with PG in any fashion at all, not even bother him really.
But even with the folks we have we are always a step slow. Our guys aren't communicating on switches, leaving big gaps, we are slow to help from the weak side, and we seem like we don't understand where we need to be and when. We are just so disconnected in defense it's creating a jumbled mess. And a good 80% or more of that is just plain execution. I think this is another coaching failure as well. Quin doesn't seem to be able to give the team the adjustments they need to make to maintain defensive intensity. When they look confused and lost on D, that is often a coaching problem and an unclear plan as to how to handle a new-look offense.
Ineptimusprime
Well-Known Member
Redundant to who? We have another 6'8" guy that shoots 40% from 3, can get his own shot, can post up and go at the basket, and is now showing some defensive versatility? Who?
We don’t need one perimeter defender, we need multiple. One can be elite, and that is who we should trade Bogey to get, the others can be budget options. We need more lineup versatility. We are all in on what we do, and it can work when we are healthy and hitting shots, but we need to have contingency plans and guys that can defend when that isn’t working.
I am not saying he is redundant to any individual player. We have all of those skills except for maybe post-up collectively from the other guys on the roster. We have NO one athletic enough to stay in front of anyone else on defense. That is a skill we desperately need. I just think we can absorb the loss of his skillset better than anyone else that has any trade value on the roster.
We don’t need one perimeter defender, we need multiple. One can be elite, and that is who we should trade Bogey to get, the others can be budget options. We need more lineup versatility. We are all in on what we do, and it can work when we are healthy and hitting shots, but we need to have contingency plans and guys that can defend when that isn’t working.
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This comes back around as not having the correct players for the scheme Quin wants to use. To best utilize your players you put them in a scheme where it utilizes their strengths. We also just don’t have the players to do the scheme like you said.
Max Porter
Well-Known Member
Folks, Mitchell is on a bad leg and Conley has been out. It’s injury. If those two were healthy we’d win in probably 6.
We won game 1 and 2 with a healthy Spida, no Conley vs their healthy team.
We lost game 5 with a hobbled Spida and no Kawhi.
Seriously. We are getting out coached.
Even with a healthy Don and Mike this team is flawed. Yes I think it gives us a chance to get to the finals but this team's weaknesses are
evident more than ever.
evident more than ever.
The personnel is definitely lacking, but game 5 was largely about effort. Knowing KL wouldn't play, our guys mentally felt like that it wouldn't be that hard and were already moving on. After absolutely incredible shooting, they still were only up five. Ingles is a poor defender, and even poorer at rebounding with not even modest NBA athleticism. Bojan has played hard on defense but is about average on athleticism and while he is frequently good offensively, it's not a net+ because he's a poor rebounder, a lousy help defender, and generally doesn't give effort of any kind once his man has beaten him. Royce has average NBA athleticism, is pretty strong, always gets the other teams best offensive option. Known as a defensive stopper in some circles, I've never seen it. Good for about one iso play every twenty games or so offensively. Donovan is hurt. Rudy is expected to cover everyone, stop all offenders that drive to the basket, challenge shots and still get all the rebounds while everyone else stands there and wonders why he can't. Occasionally, he has a bad game where he just is scared to commit and is stuck in no man's land like last night. The Jazz scored 111 points. This isn't about offense even though that was shaky as well with another impressive streak of misses. Our bench is a complete and utter disaster. Favors started slow, faded, and is currently going backwards. Niang forgot to show up at all, which isn't totally surprising considering his incredible talent and athleticism. Quin is getting outreached by TLue which is unforgivable. His substitution pattern/timing was written in stone and handed down by the good lord. The sad bench was handed down by devil Linsdey. Lack of cohesion, frequent lapses, and a clear inability to react when faced with different schemes is on Quin. He sucked last year, and past is proving future. Needs to be more vocal when the officials are giving the Jazz a beatdown which happened fairly often yesterday. Having said all that, Jazz in 7 if they give effort.
homeytennis
Well-Known Member
I would say coaching is the biggest issue. Quin has a system and he is going to ride that system until the reactor explodes. He is letting guys in the rotation get away with jackpotting around and playing in tuxedos. The third quarter last night and the first quarter Monday really pi$$ed me off. No effort, no boxing out, just lazy sloppy basketball. I know Spida is playing on one leg and we don't have Conley but there are other option on the roster. Give them a shot but they have to promise to play hard. What would Jerry do?
Ineptimusprime
Well-Known Member
Quin is in an impossible situation because of a combination of injuries and roster construction. He has no one to throw out there. He is left to choose between playing Miye Oni and Niang minutes and completely running the starters into the ground, resulting in dead Don. Quin is riding the system, because he has a roster that is constructed and capable of only doing that very thing.
People mention “adjustments.” What adjustments should he make? Had we had two more playable guys on the bench (say Desmond Bane or Torrey Craig), Quin could have tried some things.
You can’t make any conclusions about Quin’s coaching from this series due to roster construction and the compounding effect of injuries. Just isn’t fair.
This is all on bad luck with injuries and DL and Zanik. Period. You could make an argument that the injury issues are also partially on DL and Zanik, because Conley is an aging PG and was already a known injury risk when he was brought in.
Heads must roll, but not Quin’s.
People mention “adjustments.” What adjustments should he make? Had we had two more playable guys on the bench (say Desmond Bane or Torrey Craig), Quin could have tried some things.
You can’t make any conclusions about Quin’s coaching from this series due to roster construction and the compounding effect of injuries. Just isn’t fair.
This is all on bad luck with injuries and DL and Zanik. Period. You could make an argument that the injury issues are also partially on DL and Zanik, because Conley is an aging PG and was already a known injury risk when he was brought in.
Heads must roll, but not Quin’s.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
People would hate this. HATE it. And dude has been in a downward spiral for a few years. But...
Draymond.
I don’t think there’s any interest on the Dubs end but if we could sweeten the pot without sacrificing our 1sts like crazy, I’d consider it
Exactly, if you don't have the players for the scheme you want to use, you should change the scheme. Quin is bad at that. He keeps trying to pound the same square peg into the same round hole. He can't change the pegs at this point, so he needs to find a hole that fits.
Handlogten's Heros
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If both teams are healthy I think Clips win still... it would be close and it wouldn't be this frustrating though. Honestly if Don is 100% last night we win and I'm not sure its close.
Your are equating "adjustments" with "use different players". The adjustment needs to be to get his players to do different things. But he keeps trying to put different, far lesser, players into the same situations and expects them to do the same things. Even using his best team available, when it's clear Lue has changed their game plan that is effectively shutting down our normal schemes, Quin's answer is "fight harder to get a 3" rather than having them run a different set that is more effective against the D they are showing us.
Hell you see a simple example of the expected adjustments in Hoosiers.
"Ok we're gonna run the picket fence at'em. And don't get caught watching the paint dry."
He did something different they didn't expect, and they got the shot they needed.
That's the adjustments we just aren't making. Quin just doubles down on the game plan the clippers have already broken. He needs to give his players something else to do.
I think if everyone was healthy we would have a fighting chance and it wouldn't be so lop-sided for sure. I think with a fully healthy squad we could find a way to win it. I'd put my money on us winning in that circumstance.
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
What kind of question is this? This is one of those questions people ask but the obvious is answer...
PERSONNEL.......
PERSONNEL.......
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
U dont gotta look any further than Royce O'Neale vs Terrence Mann to see the Personnel issues...