No Extension for Walker Kessler?

[Handlogten's Heros]

You’re telling me they didn’t have an idea? Lol come on now. There’s just no way.

I didn't say they had no idea. They don't know how far apart they really were though. If one is sitting at 20M and the other at 30M you may think it lands at 25M... but unless you do the work you don't know if its more like 23 or 28. You also never know when one side might cave in... we shut the door so early in the weirdest way possible. Does that say "we tried to negotiate here but Walker's camp wanted too much".

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Agreed on all points. And it fascinates me that the Wemby year when we could have tanked we sat in Limbo - maybe the smartest year to tank in decades.

We have commitment issues. We just do. Its all over the place.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Except that isnt true.

Them keeping/not keeping Cody only has to do with what they think of Cody.

Not necessarily. We also know a bit about what they think about Cody based on guys getting fired and him being out of the rotation. If cap space is worth sacrificing some benefits with a player that is actually good and may be your 2nd best player currently... who is also young... and is also perfect for the timeline of the team... then cap space must be VERY important. Certainly more important than a guy that may wash out of the league in a year or two and if he pans out is likely a 4th or 5th bench wing?

If cap space is really part of the strategy why wouldn't it matter in other areas where we could clear some space.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Not necessarily. We also know a bit about what they think about Cody based on guys getting fired and him being out of the rotation. If cap space is worth sacrificing some benefits with a player that is actually good and may be your 2nd best player currently... who is also young... and is also perfect for the timeline of the team... then cap space must be VERY important. Certainly more important than a guy that may wash out of the league in a year or two and if he pans out is likely a 4th or 5th bench wing?

If cap space is really part of the strategy why wouldn't it matter in other areas where we could clear some space.

I mean, they obviously think Cody sucks now. Everyone knows that and everyone can see that, but I dont think they are ready to cut bait because of his physical tools. It's kind of the same thing OKC is doing with Ousmane Dieng. Yeah, he sucks, but he's tall/long/athletic and plays defense, so they dont mind holding onto him to see if he ever breaks out.

The reason, I believe, that the Cody cap doesnt influence the total cap situation is because the cap space they have with Walker's hold is what they want. They dont need more. They will do whatever move they are attempting to do, then sign Kessler. If Kessler ends up being more expensive because of it, it seems to be a sacrifice/risk they are willing to make.

And maybe they just want Walker to be a better basketball player. The issues with the Jazz/Walker are more about the Jazz believing in Walker and believing he can do more, not that they dont like him. They want him to be better at the small things and maybe not giving him the deal is part of a way to motivate him to do those things. Walker has always been a bit soft and at time unconfident. Maybe going out and balling out in his contract year is the motivation he needs to take the next step into being a legitimate top 10 center and a guy who can contend for All-D teams/All-Stars.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I mean, they obviously think Cody sucks now. Everyone knows that and everyone can see that, but I dont think they are ready to cut bait because of his physical tools. It's kind of the same thing OKC is doing with Ousmane Dieng. Yeah, he sucks, but he's tall/long/athletic and plays defense, so they dont mind holding onto him to see if he ever breaks out.

The reason, I believe, that the Cody cap doesnt influence the total cap situation is because the cap space they have with Walker's hold is what they want. They dont need more. They will do whatever move they are attempting to do, then sign Kessler. If Kessler ends up being more expensive because of it, it seems to be a sacrifice/risk they are willing to make.

And maybe they just want Walker to be a better basketball player. The issues with the Jazz/Walker are more about the Jazz believing in Walker and believing he can do more, not that they dont like him. They want him to be better at the small things and maybe not giving him the deal is part of a way to motivate him to do those things. Walker has always been a bit soft and at time unconfident. Maybe going out and balling out in his contract year is the motivation he needs to take the next step into being a legitimate top 10 center and a guy who can contend for All-D teams/All-Stars.

Sure. They know the exact amount of space they need and its 45M... not 50M.

Faith and belief can also motivate. Walker wants to be great. Literally every reporter talks about how he takes losing the hardest.

The parallels to the Hayward situation are pretty amazing here. "Flexibility" has replaced "keep the powder dry". Long term cap planning should be so much more important than trying to make a splash in FA. If they couldn't get the number to 24-27M ish in a fashion that makes sense for the org... fine. But they punted there and its just terrible process and dumb.

You also don't need the full amount of cap space to play in FA. That's some archaic basic thinking. I am not sure what gives me less faith in the org if true. If the cap space is the real reason that doesn't embolden me. If they just aren't sure about Walker and wanted to be able to trade him in season... that also doesn't inspire much confidence for me as its pretty indecisive.

You will have to make some hard choices as an org. They won't all be ripoff trades or easy evaluations. No decision boxes you in sometimes more than a decision will. Its clear we want to have our cake and eat it too... good luck with that.

 

[KqWIN]

On the pod I said that the acid test for the cap space theory is whether they pick up or decline Cody's option. If 10M in cap space is worth fussing with Walker's extension, then Cody's option would free up another $5M in "flexibility".

Even if you convinced me they do care about the cap space....I just think that's plain dumb. Did we forget that we're the Utah freaking Jazz? Cap space is not the right strategy for this franchise and especially not at this time. You know what a good use of cap space for this franchise is? Locking down a front loaded rookie extension that will save you some bucks when you actually expect to be good and have to pay the players you've tanked for and/or create more CAP SPACE in future years. If Kessler has a good year, we've lost out on more cap space over the course of his deal.

Waiting to sign for cap space makes sense when it's a Maxey situation and it's the fun max. You already know what the deal is, they saved like $40M in cap space, and they don't play in Utah.

 

[NAOS_pt2]

Look... I have tried to be like subtle about this. When I say the Jazz never negotiated anything in good faith... that is not a guess. The Jazz made a low ball offer in the neighborhood of the cap hold so that they could say they made an offer. The sides were about $50M apart but the Jazz said "lets pick this up next summer" an insane 3-4 weeks away from the deadline. This is 100% on the Jazz.

They have commitment issues. They are misreading the lay of the land. They "negotiated" in a lazy way. They fumbled the bag and now its a matter of how much damage they did. Indecisiveness is not "Flexibility".

This stinks, man. Thanks for the reports.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Even if you convinced me they do care about the cap space....I just think that's plain dumb. Did we forget that we're the Utah freaking Jazz? Cap space is not the right strategy for this franchise and especially not at this time. You know what a good use of cap space for this franchise is? Locking down a front loaded rookie extension that will save you some bucks when you actually expect to be good and have to pay the players you've tanked for and/or create more CAP SPACE in future years. If Kessler has a good year, we've lost out on more cap space over the course of his deal.

Waiting to sign for cap space makes sense when it's a Maxey situation and it's the fun max. You already know what the deal is, they saved like $40M in cap space, and they don't play in Utah.

The Maxey deal was different because it was max now or max later.

Thinking you need 45M instead of $30M in cap space is just such a boomer way to think about cap space. If you get a commitment from Trae Young you will find a way to do a sign and trade.

The last couple times we have had cap space what happened. We used it to front load and renegotiate and extend guys. We had a chance to do that early.

I also contend there is not a FA you will want to sign for more than $30M next year.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This stinks, man. Thanks for the reports.

Yeah if they had actually taken it to the deadline and really dug in... I wouldn't be like this.

 

[underdog]

A lot of talk about Kessler’s situation here. Kind of hard because it seems we don’t know the facts. But I’ll say this. Teams don’t give a player a big contract until he’s proven that he deserves it. If Kessler had shown he can shoot, pass, and defend the perimeter in addition to protecting the rim, he would have a fat extension in his pocket right now. But he doesn’t because, when it comes to contracts, teams don't want to make decisions based on guesses about whether a player will develop his skills later. Now, if Kessler becomes versatile, the Jazz will offer him a nice contract, but it may not be much different than the contract they would’ve given him this summer had he shown those skills earlier.

 

[LogGrad98]

This is looking pretty stupid and short-sighted right about now. Once game, yeah, but still. What a ****ing Game it was

 

[KqWIN]

So just to play devils advocate.....how many teams can actually pay Walker Kessler next summer?

WAS
CHI
LAL
BKN
DET

The first 3 seem to be teams that would be very interested in Kessler. BKN may have moderate interest in him....they still have Nic Claxton but they don't have their 2027 pick. DET doesn't make sense as a destination.

There are a few teams that could get there, of course, but in reality they would need to make moves before trade deadline to clear money. I doubt anyone is going to make a salary dump type trade just to make an offer sheet.

I think people are drawing parallels to Kuminga/Grimes/Thomas....IMO it's not the same situation as Kessler will certainly have some buyers. I think the Hayward parallels are valid and painful to think about, especially when it comes to tarnishing the relationship. But on the optimistic side, remember when nobody tried to screw the Lakers on an offer sheet with Austin Reaves? If the Jazz put out a message that they will match anything, maybe nobody wastes their time and they move onto something else.

After actually reviewing the cap space teams....I still think we're looking at a mistake but the Jazz position in RFA is stronger than I had thought. One team could really blow up your spot though.