MVP
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That's why I laugh at people who said they would never trade Gobert... If you have a chance to land a superstar you do it.
Non jazz 2019 playoff discussion.
- Thread starter yamers
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It’s more about not pivoting to a win-now mode. The moment we got a hint of Donovan being ready way ahead of schedule was the moment it was crystal clear we needed to start trying to win. Not saying we should or could have obtained a PG or whatnot, but we’re pretty cautious about assets, or what we believe to be assets, when there’s a risk that you’re renting something. The idea of getting Conley means his value to you diminishes the longer you don’t have him (i.e. it would be better to have him the end of this season rather than just the next two years). If we’re willing to make an effort to grab him, if Exum really was a deal-breaker, then I think that fits pretty consistently with our team building strategy.
This summer we’re talking about how much we want to keep Favors, and while that may be a playing cards close to the vest, it’s completely consistent with any past history. We’ve sat by on the sidelines while a lot of good pieces were going for small cost, and I have doubts that we’ll overcome the perceived loss of pivoting from Favors.
Hotdog
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Why? So you and all the other naysayers can mock it endlessly? All the while never offering a viable solution yourself?
@infection and @dong2ha are absolutely right. Ive been touting this strategy for years. There are plenty of examples where the Jazz probably could have and should have taken a chance by either making a trade to get better or to get worse and tank. But every time its discussed knuckle heads like you shoot it down as being dumb or having no chance.
At this point the Jazz have painted themselves into a corner. The options aren't really there now to do anything. So dont pat yourself on the back for pointing out that its not there right now. The whole reason why we are stuck is because of the unwillingness to take a risk when the time was right.
What Toronto is doing is proving that what the Jazz do is dumb. They were a good team who couldn't get over the hump. So they took a huge risk and it paid off. The Jazz wont do that, and they deserve criticism for it. Just making the playoffs isnt good enough. You should be actually trying to win a championship.
Hotdog
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This is absolutely true. The Jazz have sat on their hands far too much over the years.
I dont know that moving on from Favors is the best move at this point though. Maybe it is, but I cant see it. Normally I would agree. I just dont see how doing something like Maxing out Kemba or Tobias combined with moving on from Favors makes us a lot better.
Its a tough situation for sure.
Douchebag K
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That’s a pretty bloody long winded way of saying you don’t know any concrete ideas to back up all your hot air.
Handlogten's Heros
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Pretty much best case scenario for us... maybe Bucks don’t go all out to retain everyone and leaves a crack in the door for Kawhi to stay.
Hotdog
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Proofs in the pudding son. The Jazz have no rings. There's the backup for what I just said
Douchebag K
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Nobody wins a ring unless they’re lucky enough to have one of these top 2-4 players. You still haven’t provided any substance on how you’d personally orchestrate getting one of these players even tho you think you know better than Jazz management And you won’t, because you’re a cretin. A mental giant of mammoth scope. A blowhard backward redneck giant sized dumbarse ****wit
MVP
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The Thriller
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Jeez. Why escalate this into such a personal attack?
Hotdog
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Is that your best?
All I heard was...You telling me its hard so why even try.
Sounds like a personal philosophy.
Douchebag K
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Uh for fun ?? I’m having a bad day so he’s gonna cop some flack
Anyway he called me a knucklehead first. You want some too bitch ??
Douchebag K
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Lol no that’s just some lighthearted fun dude. All good.
No I’m happy to us to try. I still want us to try and get Conley. Or sacrifice anyone not named Mitchell or Gobert to get Jrue Holiday. Or throw the kitchen sink at Tobias. But it’s just not as simple as what some of you make it out to be
Hotdog
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Practically every single time I hear its harder than we think it is, we watch a trade go down for something we could have easily done.. just saying... cant sit here and keep saying that year after year.
Im admitting its a lot harder right now than it has ever been. But I have every right to point out the stupidity of not doing it earlier when the iron was hot. And it was hot many times since Deron was traded. That's the last ballsy move they made and they didnt even do it right. Should have went into full tank mode.
fishonjazz
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At least we didnt draft jan vessley at #6 in that draft eh?
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fishonjazz
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I was a big time mccolum fan when drafted trey burke. Smd
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fishonjazz
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One other thing.
I watched a lot of kahwi in college as it was the heyday of byu basketball and jimmermania. He couldn't handle the ball and couldn't shoot. His form even looked broken a bit. He was an elite defender (except when guarding jimmer who would always tear him up).
A GM could look at his stats and his skillset and think they might be drafting Tony Allen. (Spoiler alert! Tony Allen was a better scorer than kahwi in college both in points per game and efficiency)
Burks on the other hand had elite athleticism, was a great ball handler, great scorer, loved contact and was elite at getting to the line, a very good rebounder for his position, decent passer, and great finisher at the rim. A GM could look at his numbers and game and think they might be drafting Dwayne wade. (Spoiler alert, Burks averaged more points per game than wade in college.)
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LoPo
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Good, valid points. I did a lot of research that draft for some reason. Guess I just had the time.
I looked into Kawhi's personal journey and his development at college. How his team succeeded when he performed well. His defense and absolute freak measurements (length, hand size, etc) led me to believe that he would be the perfect counterpart to a scoring wing like a Hayward. When I saw Kawhi, I saw Scottie Pippen.
As for Burks, I always thought he was a ball dominant scorer at the college level. I thought at his best, he could a Jamal Crawford type in the NBA. I just wasn't a big fan of Burks. Thought he was 6th man at his peak.
I'm wrong a ton about so many things, but I just happened to be spot on with those two. I was incredibly furious when we didn't select Kawhi. That anger doubled when SA got him.
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fishonjazz
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Scottie pippen is a good comp for kahwi it turns out. And I could even see some people seeing that while he was in college. I think people where just scared that he was limited too much offensively. Obviously that isn't the case. I wonder how much effect the Spurs had on him offensively. He would be a defensive stud no matter what but I wonder if Corbin would have developed his offensive game. Corbin loved Josh Howard (he shot 39% from the field and 24% from three as a 31 year old for the jazz lol. Good job Corbin), Marvin Williams, Richard Jefferson (33 years old and started in 78 games for a tanking jazz team lol), and they had Hayward. I'm not certain Corbin would have given kahwi enough minutes to flourish.
And ya Burks was a ball dominant scorer in college but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Ball dominant scorers are something highly sought after aren't they? I mean that was one of the knocks on Wiggins. Wade was a ball dominant scorer too. Wade averaged 15.2 shot attempts per game in his sophomore season. Burks averaged 14.1 shots in his sophomore season. Burks also averaged slightly more points per game in slightly less minutes than wade. (Burks got to the line 7.9 times per game. Wade had 7.5 free throw attempts per game. Burks shot 83% and wade shot 78%)
Kahwis biggest strength was his huge hands and length. Many busts have been picked due to measurables over production.
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Up there with free booze and free drugs, both of which I scammed out of a Melbourne bar scene identity that I can't stand tonight.