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Now this is just getting ****ing ridiculous - Portland after one of the Jazz . . . again.

Nate505 said:
Not sure why KOC would leave. I believe with Sloan gone and Greg being a relatively new owner he finally has control of the franchise.
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Unless he holds it against the many fans who loudly booed the Hayward pick.
Maybe he goes to Portland if Allen offers him double the money for 3-4 years. But I doubt it. Allen's treatment of Pritchard was reprehensible, refusing to sit near him the entire season before he was fired, then making him work through the end of the draft, when everyone knew he was being let go right after. And then Cho is one and done.

KOC has stability in Utah and the franchise is in better shape, both in terms of talent and financially (with respect to a new cap/tax threshold).
 
Wow!! People are finally coming around to my way of thinking when it comes to KOC, was behind him 100% all these years. I'm Happy to see he is finally getting the love he deserves.
 
I'm on the fence with KOC. The things he has done poorly (overall draft record, not more aggressive in improving the team when D-will was still here) probably gets cancelled out by the good things he has done. I don't think he is an elite GM by any stretch of the imagination though, he is average. As some have stated, maybe now that the overbearing presence of LHM and Sloan are no longer are around, we can see what this guy can really do.
 
akirac73 said:
I'm on the fence with KOC. The things he has done poorly (overall draft record, not more aggressive in improving the team when D-will was still here) probably gets cancelled out by the good things he has done. I don't think he is an elite GM by any stretch of the imagination though, he is average. As some have stated, maybe now that the overbearing presence of LHM and Sloan are no longer are around, we can see what this guy can really do.
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I dont know why all of you have a hardie on for this dude. Seriously, he has been lucky that when he has made such huge screw ups that something comes along to bail him out. How long did we keep Boozer? We had plenty of opportunities to improve our team by moving him when he was at the peak of his time here in Utah. Then when he left the GM of the Wolves bailed him out by giving us Jefferson for nothing. Next why did Deron leave the Jazz in the first place? Because KOC would not give minimum contract to players like Wes Matthews and instead tells them to set their own market. When they come back with an offer from the Blazers it is too pricey for KOC to match it is c-ya later to that player. By losing talented players that is how DWill became unhappy. Sure I like the young core that we have but where could we have been with a more aggressive GM. We still have Bell on our team why even sign that dinosaur? And the list goes on. The draft is another story....
 
There is nothing anybody can say that can or will convince you and on top of it already has not been said hundreds of times before. Anything good was because of luck or somebody/thing else and anything negative was completely and solely on him according to your reasoning, so good luck with that.

IMO I wouldn't consider him elite but just outside of elite, outside top 3 but in between 4-8 in the NBA. Considering the market and team he has to work with and now with all the recent changes to the franchise I'm interested in seeing how he handles things. Also I don't know who else they could get that I would think is better, it would either be somebody unproven and with newness of the Jazz coaching staff and owner I think there is more then enough unproven to go around. Or a rehash that would be worse IMO then KOC, the only person I could see is Scotty and he did horrible with the Knicks but pretty good for the Jazz before KOC and as another plus it would get him off the coaching staff and they'd get to go after one additional coach (in addition to the one more rumored to be added later).
 
KOC BEGONE said:
I dont know why all of you have a hardie on for this dude. Seriously, he has been lucky that when he has made such huge screw ups that something comes along to bail him out. How long did we keep Boozer? We had plenty of opportunities to improve our team by moving him when he was at the peak of his time here in Utah. Then when he left the GM of the Wolves bailed him out by giving us Jefferson for nothing. Next why did Deron leave the Jazz in the first place? Because KOC would not give minimum contract to players like Wes Matthews and instead tells them to set their own market. When they come back with an offer from the Blazers it is too pricey for KOC to match it is c-ya later to that player. By losing talented players that is how DWill became unhappy. Sure I like the young core that we have but where could we have been with a more aggressive GM. We still have Bell on our team why even sign that dinosaur? And the list goes on. The draft is another story....
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Really. You think KOC would have turned Matthews down had Wesley said he'd play for the minimum? What is that, about $300K for a 2nd year player? Oh yeah, I'm sure Matthews' agent would have called Wesley and told him to sign IMMEDIATELY! There was not a chance in hell another team would offer more.
 
KOC may be gone?? IT'S ABOUT DAMN TIME!!! As I was reading, a few think that he's done a great job of rebuilding the team. Hes been rebuilding this damn team since 2001. He started painting a picture more than ten years ago. He has since allowed millions of dollars to fly through his fingertips while developing a masterpiece. And when he gets done with his dream picture, he doesnt like it so he tears it down and starts rebuilding again. KOC is a 145 year old kid that has been playing with his lego's for way too long. He concentrates on building the lego's to the sky and then throws a temper tantrum and rips them down. The Millers have been like his sergeant mother that never runs out of milk. He is the spoiled 9 year old in a streched out onesy that he has been wearing since birth that looks like hes of middle age and drags his feet while being pushed around in a stroller (that he out grew 40 years ago) at disney land. Its about damn time. Peace out KOC. Hope you robbed Energy Solutions of Jerry Sloans emergency baby food on your way out.
 
GlassEater said:
Really. You think KOC would have turned Matthews down had Wesley said he'd play for the minimum? What is that, about $300K for a 2nd year player? Oh yeah, I'm sure Matthews' agent would have called Wesley and told him to sign IMMEDIATELY! There was not a chance in hell another team would offer more.
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A minimum reasonable contract kind of like the one he threw at POS Raja Bell. Yes he would have stayed for that $$$.
 
I can't believe anyone on this planet believes the Jazz and KOC would not have jumped all over WM for the minimum. Some of the things said by the Matthews camp since then make it clear they would not have done so. Go ahead and blame KOC for draft picks etc (which is as good as most in the league) but blaming him for Matthews is blind.
 
Some people have absolutely no sense of perspective.

KOC has been quite good but far from perfect. How much did we hear or say that Pritchard was so much better? Looking at what each did, KOC has managed circles around the guy and with fewer resources.

The Jazz could do better than KOC, but it wouldn't be easy and they could certainly do a whole hell of a lot worse. Losing him would be bad news.
 
gomretat said:
I can't believe anyone on this planet believes the Jazz and KOC would not have jumped all over WM for the minimum. Some of the things said by the Matthews camp since then make it clear they would not have done so. Go ahead and blame KOC for draft picks etc (which is as good as most in the league) but blaming him for Matthews is blind.
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Wes Matthews would have taken the contract offered to Raja Bell by the Jazz. He is on another team what does it serve him to say all that he has? He said if O'Conner would have gave him a reasonable offer he would have stayed in Utah. Which would have helped us keep Deron. Look it is a dominos effect all started by holding Boozer on the team for far to long and letting his attitude start to get to Dwill.
 
I am not a fan of Big Al, but holding onto Boozer got the Jazz Big Al. It was a savvy move, even if I think it was a mistake.
 
KOC BEGONE said:
Wes Matthews would have taken the contract offered to Raja Bell by the Jazz. He is on another team what does it serve him to say all that he has? He said if O'Conner would have gave him a reasonable offer he would have stayed in Utah. Which would have helped us keep Deron. Look it is a dominos effect all started by holding Boozer on the team for far to long and letting his attitude start to get to Dwill.
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If you believe he would have accepted a 3 year $10 million ($3.33 million a year) contract over a 5 year $33.4 million ($6.68 million a year) contract then I don't know what to say. Unless you believe he would have signed the first offer he saw without testing the open market. Frankly, I believe he was too smart to do so and with the offer he got it was obviously the correct financial decision.
 
Nate505 said:
If you believe he would have accepted a 3 year $10 million ($3.33 million a year) contract over a 5 year $33.4 million ($6.68 million a year) contract then I don't know what to say. Unless you believe he would have signed the first offer he saw without testing the open market. Frankly, I believe he was too smart to do so and with the offer he got it was obviously the correct financial decision.
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He wouldn't have gotten to the point of getting that offer. If OConner doesn't tell him to set his market value and offers him that 3 year $10 million Wes is taking it.

https://www.aolnews.com/2010/07/14/portland-bound-matthews-surprised-jazz-didnt-match/

You don't go into an interview about your new contract and have to mention that he wanted an offer from the Jazz three times if you didn't want to play for the Jazz
 
NUMBERICA said:
I am not a fan of Big Al, but holding onto Boozer got the Jazz Big Al. It was a savvy move, even if I think it was a mistake.
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That is where KOC lucked out big time. YOu can't tell me that he knew that during those last two dog years with Boozer he knew that Minnesota would give up Al for nothing. I think KOC was like the GM of the Bulls thinks Boozer is a great player. Boozer hurt our team by causing drama in the locker room and playing half @sses enough to make himself look good. NO way on earth KOC knew Al Jefferson's former team would trade for Beasley and take a crazy turn to trade one of their top scorers for nothing.
 
So if O'Conner makes a great trade it's because he "lucked out big time" and if moves or draft picks don't work out it's because he sucks. Thankfully the Millers don't evaluate his performance in a similar manner.

My biggest beef with KOC was his lack of moves during the summer of 2008, but if (and it's still a big if) over the next few years Kanter, Favors, Burks and some of our other players develop as hoped and we become a strong playoff team again - KOC will have successfully orchestrated two rebuilding projects with the same team - and that's something not alot of GM's have on their resume.
 
vslice02 said:
So if O'Conner makes a great trade it's because he "lucked out big time" and if moves or draft picks don't work out it's because he sucks. Thankfully the Millers don't evaluate his performance in a similar manner.

My biggest beef with KOC was his lack of moves during the summer of 2008, but if (and it's still a big if) over the next few years Kanter, Favors, Burks and some of our other players develop as hoped and we become a strong playoff team again - KOC will have successfully orchestrated two rebuilding projects with the same team - and that's something not alot of GM's have on their resume.
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No he has had some good moves. I like that he moved Dwill and what he got. But, that being said he put Dwill in that situation. Keep in mind I no longer root for Dwill. When you build a team with Boozer, Memo, AK, Dwill, Korver, and a mix of young talent like Brewer, and Matthews. You are going to have to tweak things going forward. But, instead of taking Boozer an overrated asset and moving him while his stock is high; KOC held him and moved the younger developing players saying that we didn't have the cap room to keep them. If I was Dwill I would not be happy either.
 
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