Obama Government Shutdown?

[Dr. Jones]

I just read this whole thread, beginning to end, and was quite surprised at how much I enjoyed reading an overall good conversation. Nice work communicating various view points with respect for opposing views (as well as can be expected) and bringing up multiple good positions.

Our government could learn much from you guys.

 

[LogGrad98]

Log you should seriously watch this. At least the first half.
I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

I lived in Germany and maintain many close friends there. There is much about the society and government structure I wish we could emulate. Of course nothing is perfect, but they have as close to a perfect system as is out there right now, imo. The problem I see here is the difference between "programs" and "system". In Germany it is all a well-oiled machine, a system in which the part work well together, as designed, and make the whole better for it. Here we have competing programs that threaten to take money and resources from other programs to stay afloat, and that are constantly being held hostage (good word Kicky, right on the money) by one group or another to get what they want.

 

[sirkickyass]

Here is a graph:

Is it still the position of Stoked and others that the Dems have refused to compromise sufficiently with their Senate bill?

 

[Revolution 9]

I lived in Germany and maintain many close friends there. There is much about the society and government structure I wish we could emulate. Of course nothing is perfect, but they have as close to a perfect system as is out there right now, imo. The problem I see here is the difference between "programs" and "system". In Germany it is all a well-oiled machine, a system in which the part work well together, as designed, and make the whole better for it. Here we have competing programs that threaten to take money and resources from other programs to stay afloat.

Can't agree more with most of this. Germany is by no means perfect, but their system seems like it's built to succeed.

So damn, where the hell do we start?

I think the core of our country could be our smartest investment. Giving people better education, more useful curriculum, and hopefully better road map to succeed.
I think we can first start with our High Schools. Giving kids courses on how to pay taxes, invest, pay your bills, budget. Basically giving children skills for the real world. Drop some of the general math requirements, and give some students different methods to fit their skill sets.

 

[LogGrad98]

Can't agree more with most of this. Germany is by no means perfect, but their system seems like it's built to succeed.

So damn, where the hell do we start?

I think the core of our country could be our smartest investment. Giving people better education, more useful curriculum, and hopefully better road map to succeed.
I think we can first start with our High Schools. Giving kids courses on how to pay taxes, invest, pay your bills, budget. Basically giving children skills for the real world. Drop some of the general math requirements, and give some students different methods to fit their skill sets.

The tough thing is we have been so program-oriented for so long that there are many programs that need to be blown up and rebuilt to get them integrated into a system. Where to start with that? Yikes. I agree with your assessment of education. That is a good starting point. I think a major hurdle is how interdependent they all are, all while not being a coherent system. More like a plate of spaghetti. Try to remove or straighten one noodle and the rest get disrupted. Or maybe jenga. How far is it all from a collapse?

 

[JAG]

Fixing the education system would require the leaders to also be really looking out for the population, and not so concerned about the money going into their pockets. High school teaches the students nothing that will help them in the real world and that's where college is suppose to help, but the collegiate system is all about wringing every last cent from those that attend. Fixing the education system is about as complicated as fixing the government.

 

[Revolution 9]

How far is it all from a collapse?

Hopefully not close, but on the other hand will a total collapse be the only things that unites us?
Do we have to hit rock bottom for things to change? I feel like we might.

I'm trying to stay positive Log. I'm just struggling with it. I live in Germany. The dollar is low, and jobs are becoming less and less due to the draw down/slashing budgets.
Then you turn on the news, and we are at war with each other. There really is no escape from the constant war of words, and the current economic situation.

 

[Deleted member 365]

It is not a generality, it is a fact. The gerrymandered districts voted in a Republican house that ran on removing Obamacare.

Edit: To be clear I am not defending the republicans as I see no sign of compromise from those idiots either.

fixed.

 

[fishonjazz]

I just read this whole thread, beginning to end, and was quite surprised at how much I enjoyed reading an overall good conversation. Nice work communicating various view points with respect for opposing views (as well as can be expected) and bringing up multiple good positions.

Our government could learn much from you guys.

This.
I know nothing of politics (except that I hate them) and usually tire of these types of threads and hate listening to people talk politics or read emails from my dad about politics (he loves to send me crap about how bad democrats suck) or even all the bickering on facebook about politics.

But this thread has been informative, mostly fair, educational, and a pleasure to read.

You smart fellers have my attention, sorry for the interuption, and please continue

 

[Revolution 9]

the collegiate system is all about wringing every last cent from those that attend. Fixing the education system is about as complicated as fixing the government.

So true. **** we really are ****ed.

 

[JimLes]

I think the core of our country could be our smartest investment. Giving people better education, more useful curriculum, and hopefully better road map to succeed.
I think we can first start with our High Schools. Giving kids courses on how to pay taxes, invest, pay your bills, budget. Basically giving children skills for the real world. Drop some of the general math requirements, and give some students different methods to fit their skill sets.

The problem is that our high school education in North America is moulded to fit the needs of for-profit universities, who in turn mould their education on the needs of large, for-profit corporations. You can't really drop general math requirements, because universities won't take those kids, and in turn, your kid won't land an awesome job with whatever Fortune 500 company. We have two streams for each high school course here in Canada, academic and non-academic. They're usually labeled with numbers, so that English 10-1 would be academic grade 10 English and 10-2 would be non-academic.

The idea behind this is basically good. You don't really need to be able to do an in-depth analysis of the graveyard scene in Hamlet in order to...well, actually, in order to do anything. But you especially don't need it to be an accountant, a mechanic or a chemical technician. It's probably good to be able to do it if you're going into university humanities. The problem is that university entrance requirements are getting tougher and tougher and they demand you have academic-level courses when you graduate. Back when I started HS, two thirds of students in grade 10 were taking non-academic Social Studies, and one third were taking academic. 15 years later, those numbers have reversed. Parental pressure is tremendous, because so many of them want their kids to go to university and to do that, you often need academic-level Social Studies. This results in a lot of kids who realistically should be taking -2 courses ending up in my -1 courses. They then often struggle to pass, require outside tutoring, and are generally put under insane and unnecessary pressure. And for what? To often end up right back in non-academic courses because you simply cannot pass them. To say nothing of kids who barely pass and have gained very little from the whole experiences or the kids who are so weak at Social Studies, they have to take 3 years worth of non-academic classes, then back track and redo every one of those at academic level because it's the only way they'll pass.

And don't even get me started on how in grade 12, you don't really teach so much as spend all your time preparing kids for one stupid exam at the end of the year that we can't get rid of because universities complain.

 

[green]

Lmao, me too. Some people are misusing this resource, so let's just axe the whole thing-- letting the people who the program was designed for, to slip through the cracks.

And we're talking about food here.

Again, you are the problem. Who said to axe the whole program? It is because of people like you, with attitudes like yours, that will not allow anyone to have an intelligent conversation and figure out solutions.