Ochai- What do we think?

[fishonjazz]

I TLDR this whole thread, but has anyone brought up ole boy needs to rebound way better?

I have noticed that when a shot goes up when the jazz are on defense he seems to run out for a transition opportunity and when a shot goes up on offense he runs back on defense.

I think he is being coached to do these things. His role is not to crash the boards and this dude listens to his coach more so than anyone else on the team imo. I think the jazz figure their 3 7 footers should be able to grab the rebounds.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I TLDR this whole thread, but has anyone brought up ole boy needs to rebound way better?

In general he needs more aggressiveness/physicality on defense... this would be part of that.

 

[default]

I see him as a very good rotation player,but not a starter on a contender

 

[checkbookdoc]

I see him as a very good rotation player,but not a starter on a contender

Book marked for public shaming in the future.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I see him as a very good rotation player,but not a starter on a contender

Seriously?? He’s a very good shooter, doesn’t bog down the offense and shows the ability to be a good on ball defender.

Basically he’s going to knock down shots and play at least decent defense Klay lite. I guess you haven’t watched him play the last little while. What he’s done lately is only scratching the surface of what he’s capable of. One of my pet peeves is people judging a rookie as if they are a finished product. Not all rookies progress at Mitchel’s pace.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

I have noticed that when a shot goes up when the jazz are on defense he seems to run out for a transition opportunity and when a shot goes up on offense he runs back on defense.

I think he is being coached to do these things. His role is not to crash the boards and this dude listens to his coach more so than anyone else on the team imo. I think the jazz figure their 3 7 footers should be able to grab the rebounds.

yeah, i only worry about guard rebounds if it's a poor rebounding team - in that case the guards need to get on the glass. since the jazz are one of the best rebounding teams in the league, it's a meaningless stat for their guards. the bigs are doing their job.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm not super high on Ochai... I think he's solid and will be solid going forward. I just think his median outcome is like Courtney Lee+... maybe. If he was a 19 year old rookie I'd be a little higher on him... if his defense was better I'd be a little higher on him. He likely can take some steps forward and I am shorting him a bit.

The reason I bring this up... I wonder if Ochai's trade value would be at a point where we could sell high this summer. Say the Minny pick lands 17... if we pair Ochai with the 17th pick how high are we going to end up? Would it be worth it to jump from 17 to 8 through 10-ish? Instead of Bufkin or JHS you could take Wallace or Black. Maybe its a trade of Ochai+Philly pick to Brooklyn for DFS and their pick in the early 20s.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I'm not super high on Ochai... I think he's solid and will be solid going forward. I just think his median outcome is like Courtney Lee+... maybe. If he was a 19 year old rookie I'd be a little higher on him... if his defense was better I'd be a little higher on him. He likely can take some steps forward and I am shorting him a bit.

The reason I bring this up... I wonder if Ochai's trade value would be at a point where we could sell high this summer. Say the Minny pick lands 17... if we pair Ochai with the 17th pick how high are we going to end up? Would it be worth it to jump from 17 to 8 through 10-ish? Instead of Bufkin or JHS you could take Wallace or Black. Maybe its a trade of Ochai+Philly pick to Brooklyn for DFS and their pick in the early 20s.

Lol

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Lol

My bad... am I supposed to slobber all over him or proclaim him the next Ray Allen/Klay Thompson? He's been solid... if a solid rookie stagnates in year 2 the outlook changes pretty significantly... especially with older rookies.

 

[NUMBERICA]

It’s just weird to me that with just about everyone here being freaks about NBA basketball that seemingly so few remember players that had some shine early in their careers and then the shine just came off.

I would love Ochai to be great, but he just looks like a good rounded player to me on a real team. Which is great! But people here talk about him like he’s a star and I think we maybe need to touch the brakes on that.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It’s just weird to me that with just about everyone here being freaks about NBA basketball that seemingly so few remember players that had some shine early in their careers and then the shine just came off.

I would love Ochai to be great, but he just looks like a good rounded player to me on a real team. Which is great! But people here talk about him like he’s a star and I think we maybe need to touch the brakes on that.

And I think we sell him harder than the Knicks sold Quentin Grimes this summer… he’s untouchable yada yada yada… but he might be the piece that brings back big value… not sure if trade him to move up from 17/18 to 8-10ish but he’s not untouchable like Lauri and Walker are (kinda… everyone has a price obvi).

When I hear the Jazz want Ochai to be the starter and that they also want to bring back JC… I kinda think they are cool with moving either guy for the right deal. Just curious what the right deal would be.

He may pop and be the next Bane I suppose but he could also stagnate like Duarte, Shamet, Lee… just saying if we got good value I think it’s on the table.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

The thing I love about Ochai is that he is the kind of player who you can put in to any lineup and it works. I don't think he needs to get much better than he already is to be a really solid 5th starter / 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench.

I don't love the reports from Tony Jones that seem to indicate that the Jazz see him as the surefire starting shooting guard next year, or that they are thinking of potential free agents/draft prospects in relation to how they would fit with Ochai. I don't think he's earned that kind of respect yet. I definitely don't think he's untouchable, but I would also be careful about giving away a clear rotation level player that fits in to any team we build and is under team control for a long time.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The thing I love about Ochai is that he is the kind of player who you can put in to any lineup and it works. I don't think he needs to get much better than he already is to be a really solid 5th starter / 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench.

I don't love the reports from Tony Jones that seem to indicate that the Jazz see him as the surefire starting shooting guard next year, or that they are thinking of potential free agents/draft prospects in relation to how they would fit with Ochai. I don't think he's earned that kind of respect yet. I definitely don't think he's untouchable, but I would also be careful about giving away a clear rotation level player that fits in to any team we build and is under team control for a long time.

This. I think starting him now is the right move. It's a double showcase... he gets to show us and others what he can do.

I just think if we are looking at trading up the team we are partnering with might value Ochai over a future pick... because it has an immediate return and they might only value a pick to the extent they can flip it to another team.

I just think he's had some good games post all-star break but the aggregate stats don't scream "surefire starter". Even if he put up slightly better per minute numbers... if we brought him off the bench because we found a better player it is seen as a demotion and may ding his value.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

This. I think starting him now is the right move. It's a double showcase... he gets to show us and others what he can do.

I just think if we are looking at trading up the team we are partnering with might value Ochai over a future pick... because it has an immediate return and they might only value a pick to the extent they can flip it to another team.

I just think he's had some good games post all-star break but the aggregate stats don't scream "surefire starter". Even if he put up slightly better per minute numbers... if we brought him off the bench because we found a better player it is seen as a demotion and may ding his value.

I personally wouldn't use him to trade up in the draft, unless it was top 7, which I don't think we'll be able to do. I just think there are too many question marks on most of the players and they are projecting to be solid NBA rotation level players vs stars. I'm not sure why you would trade a guy who already is a solid rotation level player for someone who might be. Maybe I'm a little down on the draft right now.

I would consider trading him for DFS, like you mentioned above. I think we are going to be in win now mode this coming off season.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

.9 stocks per 36 and 3.6 reb per 36... those are below the Niang Line...

Not that those things can't improve but they are sometimes things that you either have or you don't. I need those up 50% for him to be a 3 and D player... otherwise he is a 3 and d player

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I personally wouldn't use him to trade up in the draft, unless it was top 7, which I don't think we'll be able to do. I just think there are too many question marks on most of the players and they are projecting to be solid NBA rotation level players vs stars. I'm not sure why you would trade a guy who already is a solid rotation level player for someone who might be. Maybe I'm a little down on the draft right now.

I would consider trading him for DFS, like you mentioned above. I think we are going to be in win now mode this coming off season.

For me its would you rather have Taylor Hendricks and Cason Wallace (or Black) or Taylor Hendricks, Ochai, and Bufkin/JHS kinda question. I would really like to get Black or Wallace but would also like to get Hendricks too. I can understand someone passing... but i could see Hawkins and some other guys being better than Ochai... I don't think he's good enough to alter your plans... at least not yet.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

My bad... am I supposed to slobber all over him or proclaim him the next Ray Allen/Klay Thompson? He's been solid... if a solid rookie stagnates in year 2 the outlook changes pretty significantly... especially with older rookies.

Neither did I. He plays like Klay lite low usage will hit a lot of threes and hopefully play decent man defense. Every team needs that to be successful

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

My bad... am I supposed to slobber all over him or proclaim him the next Ray Allen/Klay Thompson? He's been solid... if a solid rookie stagnates in year 2 the outlook changes pretty significantly... especially with older rookies.

He’s the quintessential 3&D who will be elevated because he plays with guys like Lauri Markkanen and Kessler

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

It’s just weird to me that with just about everyone here being freaks about NBA basketball that seemingly so few remember players that had some shine early in their careers and then the shine just came off.

I would love Ochai to be great, but he just looks like a good rounded player to me on a real team. Which is great! But people here talk about him like he’s a star and I think we maybe need to touch the brakes on that.

No one’s freaking out about Agbaji?? He’s the quintessential 3@D wing and that’s exciting

And I think we sell him harder than the Knicks sold Quentin Grimes this summer…

No we don’t?? How are we doing that??

This. I think starting him now is the right move. It's a double showcase... he gets to show us and others what he can do.

we need guys like him though. We have our two stars in Lauri and Kessler and expect to see us add another high usage player through one of the draft trade or free agency we need a high quality low usage guy like OA to make shots and hopefully play defense. He’s better served here. We have assets coming out the *** we don’t need to trade him to build the roster.

I would consider trading him for DFS, like you mentioned above. I think we are going to be in win now mode this coming off season.

Lol he might be just as good if not better and he’s younger and cheaper. Why the fu** would we trade him for DFS? Let alone the fact we might be able to get more for OA.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Neither did I. He plays like Klay lite low usage will hit a lot of threes and hopefully play decent man defense. Every team needs that to be successful

You delusional man... go look at Klay's rookie numbers and come talk to me.

He’s the quintessential 3&D who will be elevated because he plays with guys like Lauri Markkanen and Kessler

His defense is not good yet. He is below the Niang Line in Stocks and Rebounds per minute. He does not get into guys at all.