Game Thread Oct 20, 2021 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Thunder

[NAOS]

Individual plus minus in one game is not helpful... I know you know that.

I think with Hassan you have to look at what good things he did vs. the bad things... if it is roughly even its fine. He had a couple blocks, was all over the glass, and generally looked to be trying to do the right things... he was also kind of funny (he gets an entertainment factor bonus). He gave up a couple easy ones on missed rotations.. he took two hook shots that are not what we are looking for.

Overall I take his game last night as solid. He was good enough to maintain a healthy lead in the fourth against a ****** team which allowed Rudy to get some extra rest. Anytime we can get 19 minutes out of him in a win vs. 12 it is helpful.

He didn't seem to **** the offense up too bad. He looked better on both ends than Ed Davis ever did... On a minimum deal I think he exceeded expectations... Lets see how he looks after 15-20 games... I may be ready to get off the roller coaster.

Totally with you. There were some maddening possessions, though.

 

[framer]

He may not be playing the same way he did in his prime, but he's replacing a guy who still had 10% less usage than him. He was the second highest usage player on the Spurs last season and is used to being one of the main options on the court as he has been his entire career. Even if his role isn't quite the same as Niang, it will still be a big adjustment. He's going from a team that depended on him to create shots to a team where it's probably detrimental to do the same thing. Hopefully shooting keeps up and the new role suits him better and the better teammates allow him to create efficiently when he does....but it's an adjustment nonetheless.

The defensive attention he gets on the Jazz in comparison with the Suns will be night and day different. Should make thing a lot easier for him.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I'm not a candidate for lasik because of issues with my cornea and fluctuating prescriptions over the years. So there.

Actually though, I'm looking into ICL as an option. But it can be pretty spendy.

ICL is safer and reversible. Just get a good vision plan the year you decide to do it to subsidize the cost.

 

[mongoose01]

No ****. Great point. There is only one reason for anyone with poor eyesight not to get lasik. Cause you can't afford it. I'm pretty sure Donovan can afford it.
This makes me think Donovan might be kind of a dumbass

I was thinking the same thing but didn’t want to get flamed for saying something negative about Don. Not wanting to touch your eye sounds like a good excuse if your like 7 years old. It just seems super weird to say that as an excuse…. Wtf?


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[enchilada_style]

Hassan will probably piss me off more times than not but I do find him entertaining for some reason.


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[Handlogten's Heros]

Totally with you. There were some maddening possessions, though.

I think he’s the worse, less fun, big version of JC… not all roller coasters are fun all the time. Just gotta ride the lows and enjoy the highs.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He may not be playing the same way he did in his prime, but he's replacing a guy who still had 10% less usage than him. He was the second highest usage player on the Spurs last season and is used to being one of the main options on the court as he has been his entire career. Even if his role isn't quite the same as Niang, it will still be a big adjustment. He's going from a team that depended on him to create shots to a team where it's probably detrimental to do the same thing. Hopefully shooting keeps up and the new role suits him better and the better teammates allow him to create efficiently when he does....but it's an adjustment nonetheless.

An adjustment is not the same as a major transformation. He can be more like Bogey than Niang and be fine. Take one less two or skew more towards a spot up guy. He’s already doubled his 3P attempt rate. It’s not even a huge adjustment imo… he doesn’t need to be Niang. He’s shown himself to be malleable and there are a few wings that have made similar adjustments into their late career and done quite well. I only worry if the heel issue lingers.

 

[KqWIN]

An adjustment is not the same as a major transformation. He can be more like Bogey than Niang and be fine. Take one less two or skew more towards a spot up guy. He’s already doubled his 3P attempt rate. It’s not even a huge adjustment imo… he doesn’t need to be Niang. He’s shown himself to be malleable and there are a few wings that have made similar adjustments into their late career and done quite well. I only worry if the heel issue lingers.

I mean….we can call it whatever. Going from the the 1st or 2nd option to the 4th or 5th option and barely touching the ball is a big difference in my opinion.

If he plays the way he did last year in SAS he will end up hurting the offense. There’s a reason why his efficiency was woefully below league average last season despite a career year shooting from 3. Scoring the tough buckets and creating his own shot was very much part of his role for SAS.

Like you said, many have done this transition before and even if it is a much different role it might be just what he needs to keep his career. He’s already trending this way and if SAS wasn’t so terrible maybe he might have already made the drop to a 15 usage guy.

I have less worry about the role shift than I do about the age/injury situation…especially considering that most people seem to be banking on a big defensive upgrade. 35 is really getting up there. Unless it’s LeBron I have them in the “we’ll have to wait and see” category.

 

[infection]

So regarding the whole Hassan thing, what we're seeing lacking are the things that a certain Ekpe Udoh does in an elite fashion. No secret that I've pined for Udoh being the primary backup since forever, and have advocated that multiple off-seasons. Everything you want from Rudy in terms of having the defense run the same way is possible with Udoh than pretty much anyone else I can think of in the league. Udoh can protect the rim and gets blocks, but it's his rotations and agility, as well as his ability to step out to the perimeter, that make him the perfect fit in that regard. The biggest challenge with Udoh is his severe offensive limitations (which wouldn't be as big of an issue with how we're presently constituted) and also his horrible rebounding (which would be an issue). Those are the things Udoh gives you that Whiteside does not (and that Favors does not). On the other end of this, what Hassan does that Udoh doesn't is actually quite a significant difference. Whiteside's rebounding percentage is typically about twice that of Udoh's, and with our current makeup that's a big deal. Whiteside being able to catch a pass and have a body on him and his offense is overall worlds better, even if you're not running anything for Whiteside and even if you don't want him having much usage. Whiteside isn't really spacing things per se, but his presence will keep the defense a lot more honest than Udoh. So if you're not willing to stomach the extreme of going to Udoh, Whiteside offers a good compromise between Favors and Udoh. You probably won't change a lot of his instant instincts to any significant degree, but I believe he can fit in with his physical profile to being able to play more the style that we're looking for than Favors physical profile allowed. The rebounding and attention from the defense (relative to Favors) provides a bit of extra sauce.

tl;dr I think Whitesidee can come in and check most the boxes of adequacy. The comparison is with our alternatives and not with Rudy. I think he'll adapt to a degree and his defensive style will approach what we need more so than it does now (not entirely). Dwight Howard was my other underrated alternative.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Lol @ Jazzfanz being Jazzfanz. We always need to have someone to beat up on, and Whiteside is an easy target. I'll say it again, there'sa reason Gobert is a 3x DPOY. Not too many bigs can cover th3 floor like he does. Whiteside plays better defense than Al Jefferdad, and we started him for 3 seasons.

 

[whatthe]

Did we lose? I read the last few posts and it feels that way.

 

[infection]

Did we lose? I read the last few posts and it feels that way.

According to the NBA, yes.