Offensive Behavior

[Hopper]

If the standard simply degenerates to what some person, somewhere (no matter how weak, irrational, defensive and/or improperly motivated that "someone" might be), "might" or "could" be offended by, then God help us. Truly a case of the weakest and most inept ruling and controlling the actions of everyone, a sorry state of affairs. Much of what people claim is "offensive" boils down to wanting to control others and to "enforce" adoption of the complainer's opinions, beliefs, or preferences.

 

[GVC]

If the standard simply degenerates to what some person, somewhere (no matter how weak, irrational, defensive and/or improperly motivated that "someone" might be), "might" or "could" be offended by, then God help us. Truly a case of the weakest and most inept ruling and controlling the actions of everyone, a sorry state of affairs. Much of what people claim is "offensive" boils down to wanting to control others and to "enforce" adoption of that's person's opinions, beliefs, or preferences.

Is the implication here that it can be rational to be offended by hurtful behavior?

 

[moevillini]

There's a a big difference between "offensive" and "offended", which is for some reason often lost by people here. For example, if I see a guy pee on the sidewalk, I am not personally offended by it. However, it is still offensive behavior. So, if/when we tell you to stop your offensive behavior, it does not necessarily mean that people are being offended by your posts.

not exactly, it's more like Colton's peeing on the sidewalk comparison. Most folks would rather not see that, adults included. It has nothing to do with "protecting" the children or the helpless - it's just not something our culture is accustomed to, and we'd rather not be put in situations where we have to see it. Therefore, for the most part, it's against the law.

Is there something inherently offensive about taking a piss when you have to?

Not when it's done in the appropriate place. The community designates certain places as being appropriate for that. If you want to find a community where you can piss on the sidewalk, what's stopping you? But if you're choosing to be a part of a society that frowns upon that sort of thing, don't be surprised when you're punished for it.

Right. It just means that you're peeing on Jazzfanz. I get it.

yes, it seems that way.

 

[Hopper]

Is the implication here that it can be rational to be offended by hurtful behavior?

Well, I dunno exactly what you're asking, Commie. Sure, there are times when people may be openly attacking you and trying to hurt you. In such a case, you defend yourself, whether you are "offended," or not. If I am being deliberately attacked, then, as far as I'm concerned, the behavior is "offensive" toward me, even if it is completely justified. I won't let someone beat on me just because they have decided to attack me, even if they have good grounds for wanting to.

As far as being emotionally damaged or "hurt," what's up with that? You have "hurt my feelings," so....what? You can't be allowed to do that, because my feelings trump all?

 

[GVC]

Not when it's done in the appropriate place. The community designates certain places as being appropriate for that. If you want to find a community where you can piss on the sidewalk, what's stopping you? But if you're choosing to be a part of a society that frowns upon that sort of thing, don't be surprised when you're punished for it.

And? To a point, I'm with aint on this one. If peeing on the sidewalk hurts no one (the overwhelming smell of piss on our streets may actually hurt people), what's the big deal?

 

[GVC]

Well, I dunno exactly what you're asking, Commie. Sure, there are times when people may be openly attacking you and trying to hurt you. In such a case, you defend yourself, whether you are "offended," or not. If I am being deliberately attacked, then, as far as I'm concerned, the behavior is "offensive" toward me, even if it is completely justified. I won't let someone beat on me just because they have decided to attack me, even if they have good grounds for wanting to.

As far as being emotionally damaged or "hurt," what's up with that? You have "hurt my feelings," so....what? You can't be allowed to do that, because my feelings trump all?

What if people are openly trying to hurt others, and you have the ability to intervene for the good of someone else or society as a whole? It seems a pretty reasonable assertion that people are largely motivated by emotion. If they aren't "offended" by hurtful behavior (truly hurtful, like the raping of senior citizens), what will motivate them to try to stop that behavior from continuing?

 

[Hopper]

Not when it's done in the appropriate place.

Well, Mo, I'm not sure if you're missing my point, or simply disagree with it. If no one is being hurt, why should someone be "punished." The fallback on "propriety," and what is claimed to be "appropriate," in the absolute, abstract sense, is one thing I question the legtimacy (but not the commonness) of. Does what is "proper" in any way depend on the cicumstances? Does whatt is "harmful" in any way depend on if anyone is harmed?

 

[Hopper]

What if people are openly trying to hurt others, and you have the ability to intervene for the good of someone else or society as a whole? It seems a pretty reasonable assertion that people are largely motivated by emotion. If they aren't "offended" by hurtful behavior (truly hurtful, like the raping of senior citizens), what will motivate them to try to stop that behavior from continuing?

Again, Commie, I have difficulty in discerning what you are asking, exactly. Should senior citizens (and everyone else, for that matter) be protected from rape, if and when possible? Of course. Your question seems to be--why should anyone care? Of course, people care, and want to prevent that. But I'm talking about this "I'm an emotional cripple and you must therefore respect that and NEVER do anything which would "hurt my feelings" mentally. Not to be confused with physical attacks.

 

[Archie Moses]

What if some sex offender flashed his stuff to a group of elementary kids, and one of them was your kid? Should offense be taken?

What if you're walking with your wife or hubby somewhere and someone calls them fat and a ho? Should offense be taken?

I see Hopper's point and I know why he made the thread. Yeah, I probably shouldn't have made anything from the Booze article, and I knew I would get smashed for my reaction, but it's what I felt, so I posted it. In a perfect world, I think a lot of people would just let things go, but there are things that get our emotions going and get the best of us.

 

[moevillini]

Not when it's done in the appropriate place. The community designates certain places as being appropriate for that. If you want to find a community where you can piss on the sidewalk, what's stopping you? But if you're choosing to be a part of a society that frowns upon that sort of thing, don't be surprised when you're punished for it.

I know what you're trying to say here, Colton, and I don't entirely disagree. But it's a fine line which presupposes some objective standard for "offensive." If, as you suggest, people are not being offended, why in the world would any intervention be required? I see a guy pissin on the sidewalk at night, so what? He's not bothering me or anyone else. Am I supposed to go lecture him and tell him to immediately desist? Who's he hurting? Is there something inherently offensive about taking a piss when you have to?

Well, Mo, I'm not sure if you're missing my point, or simply disagree with it.

I disagree.

And? To a point, I'm with aint on this one. If peeing on the sidewalk hurts no one (the overwhelming smell of piss on our streets may actually hurt people), what's the big deal?

That's probably part of the reason you enjoy living in the woods by yourself.

I'm not sure how much of this discussion is jazzfanz/message board related and how much is intended to reflect on society in general. Doesn't matter - in general I support the concept of community standards that proscribe public urination. Just like I support the notion that folks shouldn't walk around in public without their clothes, or fornicate in public just as a couple of additional examples.

 

[GVC]

But I'm talking about this "I'm an emotional cripple and you must therefore respect that and NEVER do anything which would "hurt my feelings" mentally. Not to be confused with physical attacks.

Alright, I figured as much. However, as pointed out before, we are, as people (indeed, as living, breathing creatures) ruled by emotion, and the manipulation of these emotions can often lead to some hurtful behaviors (both to ourselves and others). Of course, it would be great of we could all transcend our emotions into a state of fully rational thoughts and actions, but, alas, that will never happen. Sometimes, we can't help but be offended, even if the offense given is in word alone.

With that said, I make a concerted effort to not be offended by behaviors that truly hurt no one. I try to be critical of my assessments of the damage done by others actions, and then try to make appropriate changes to my responses to these actions.

It would be completely disingenuous of me to do otherwise, as at least one of my completely harmless (at least to others) regular behaviors has been deemed illegal, and millions of people have had their lives ruined as a result of these irrational, hurtful laws.

 

[GVC]

That's probably part of the reason you enjoy living in the woods by yourself.

I seldom pee indoors.