Oh, thanks for that! I must have mistyped the plural third declension Latin noun or may have been typing with such fervor that I missed that. Testis (testes in the plural) means both a witness and a test*cle in Latin. It's always good when a guy knows his testes, and you seem to have a firm handle on yours. You've been a witness of such.
Our young wings and James Harden
- Thread starter BYE
- Start date
Oh, thanks for that! I must have mistyped the plural third declension Latin noun or may have been typing with such fervor that I missed that. Testis (testes in the plural) means both a witness and a test*cle in Latin. It's always good when a guy knows his testes, and you seem to have a firm handle on yours. You've been a witness of such.
No I don't. If I did, I would not have 6 kids, I assure you.
Chaste and I do not get along. Unfortunately, neither do the kids and I.
I kid, of course.
AKistheFEARFACTOR
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't do it. Takes away our pick from GS (lottery) and thins us at the SF and SG. I'd rather have a SG/SF plus get the two more picks via ourselves and GS and move forward with all the assets. Probably could land some picks for either Sap or Jefferson in a S&T too.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Oh my! Trading 3 starters for a guy who is going to receive a MAX contract? Remember, he turned down a substantial deal from OKC to force this trade. He's not going to re-sign for much, if anything, less than the MAX.
And the other deal was just as bad (Hayward. Burks and the GS pick). OKC HAD to trade Harden because they've paid the other young guys big money. Harden is NOT a cornerstone you build around. He's a very good player, but not a superstar. And let's see if he can duplicate his stats when the target is squarely on his back, instead of playing off of Durant, Westbrook and even Ibaka.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Yes it is...unless you are doing the trade for just a 1-yr rental, which is even worse. Harden turned down a $55.5/4 yr deal from OKC because he wanted the MAX. Houston has stated they be giving him $60M, which is the MAX they can offer. So is Harden worth $15M/per? And is he worth giving up essentially 2 starters + a likely top-10 pick?
Why are some so quick to "give up" on Burks. Alec can easily turn into a player of Harden's caliber. Burks won't get 30 mins/per this year, but Alec is a scorer in the mold of Maggette. Give Alec playing time and he becomes a candidate for the 6th-man award.
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
27 people answered NO..... 9 people answered yes.
Oh and the team that had harden and could have kept him if they wanted to answered no to giving him the max deal, and that says alot to me.
But for me personally it comes down to this: Can harden have more production than burks, hayward, and whatever comes from the golden state pick? Im pretty sure that answer will be no also.
Oh and the team that had harden and could have kept him if they wanted to answered no to giving him the max deal, and that says alot to me.
But for me personally it comes down to this: Can harden have more production than burks, hayward, and whatever comes from the golden state pick? Im pretty sure that answer will be no also.
To me, the 27 to 9 vote says more about the conservative nature of Jazzfanz. There was more than likely a bevy of GM's that would have given Harden the "max". OKC almost did so with Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka at very high numbers. From what I have read, Presti wanted him to sacrifice a little like the other players did (supposedly Durant even). He may have just been pissed off at Harden for his greed.
I've said this before, but a team full of middling players is going nowhere fast. Jazzfanz over value pure potential more often than not because it keeps the last thing that was left in Pandora's box alive, hope. There are dozens of players around the league that look like Hayward and Burks, very few that look like Harden. I think it was worth a shot if we could have kept Favors, Kanter, and Millsap. Only time will tell if either the conservative hopers made the right decision or those that thought it was worth a shot to get a guy with an impressive resume, whose only unknown was if he could be "the man". He has a good shot at being an Allstar this year with his only competition Gordon (injury prone), Ginobili (injury prone with limited minutes). Kobe is the starter of course.
Zulu
Well-Known Member
Honestly it is hard to give up on Hayward and Burks when they have only played two and one years in the league and show so much promise and a possible top ten pick for Harden who still has some question marks but is a great player. Im not sure the JazzFanz here are being ultra-conservative when there is some huge possibilities for the assets we have. Malone and Stockton weren't superstars out of the gate and had to play behind other starters before they proved they were the Men!!
Agreed. Pretty amazing that it is 3 to 1 against. Homerism defined.
Harden is 23, 6th man of the year, proven that he can carry the scoring alone (that is what a 6th man of the year award is about, he does most of his good work with the other stars out), was a key guy on a team that almost won it all. But Burks is gonna be that good. Uh-huh.
I don't think we should compare Gordon Hayward to Malone (21.7, 10.4 in his second year). Also, look at Stockton's /36 numbers from the second he touched the court. They show exactly what he was going to be: an incredible distributor, absolute thief on the defensive end, and extremely aggressive (TO's/PF's). Stockton did not develop a 3pt shot right out of the gun, but overall he was the same player as his /36 stats. Gordon Hayward will never be a perennial Allstar, period. He may get good enough to make an Allstar game, and he is going to be a nice player with his overall play, but see the flaws he has at the beginning of the thread. Who knows with Burks, maybe he will become the next Wade.
These are the top players at the SG and SF right now and over the next few seasons (IMO), but there are tons of promising rookies and the next tier down from these guys is riddled with good but not great talent; it is very hard to get into that elite category (Hayward's best shot is at SF IMO)
Wade
Bryant
Harden
Gordon
Ginobili
James
Durant
Anthony
Pierce
Iguodala
Deng
Here's a list of the top performing players last year; ask yourself the players that our young players will pass and not be surpassed by rookies; try it with both /48 and averages:
https://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/12/3/eff/1-1
https://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/12/4/eff/1-1
jope
Well-Known Member
Malone played 30 mins/game his rookie season
by their second seasons, they were already realizing their potential
Malone in his 2nd year
21 pts
10 rebs
2 ast
1.5 stl
Stockton in his 2nd year (per 36 since his minutes were slightly limited)
12pts
11.5 ast
3 stl
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Malone played three years in college, Stockton four.
EDIT: My mistake. Thought Favors was being compared.
How many years in college did Burks play?
Zulu
Well-Known Member
I would like to see Burks rookie year stats per 36 min.
I would have agreed to:
Hayward or Burks + Jefferson for Harden + Perkins
or
Hayward/Burks + Millsap + Bell for Harden + Aldrich + Maynor
I doubt either trade, without picks, would have gotten the deal done. I think OKC got a lot, if not too much for Harden and benchwarmers.
Hayward or Burks + Jefferson for Harden + Perkins
or
Hayward/Burks + Millsap + Bell for Harden + Aldrich + Maynor
I doubt either trade, without picks, would have gotten the deal done. I think OKC got a lot, if not too much for Harden and benchwarmers.
16.3, 5.1, 2.1, 1 (stl)
43%, 33%, 73%
--Burks has also been showing a better 3 pt shot this year, but his spot up 3% was very good last year, in the top of the league
--Great athleticism, better than Hardens
--Tremendous rebounder for his position
--Free throw line %, very nice
--Ranked well via Synergy on defense (Synergy is flawed for defensive performance though)
Knocks:
--He seems to have bad BB IQ
--Playing with players
--Bad shot selection
--Not strong enough
--Horrendous % at midrange; should improve this year
--out of control