Police Power and Racial Tensions in Ferguson, Missouri

[TroutBum]

I'm still waiting for more details, so I don't have a strong opinion either way on the officer's guilt. That this happened is terrible, of course.

I do think it's important to understand the history of law enforcement and incarceration in the Black community in America when considering events like this, and the anger that comes with them. Up until the early 1970s, incarceration rates had been pretty stable for decades, however over the next 30+ years (trends are beginning to change) these rates exploded. This growth has been driven by the War on Drugs and stricter penalties (longer sentences) on crime in general. Even as violent and property crimes decreased, rates of prosecution and incarceration for lesser crimes increased. With rulings on Terry stops (stop and frisk, etc.), which have effectively legalized or even promoted racial profiling (whites who are stopped are much more likely to be found with contraband...), and the higher baseline crime rates, the increase in police presence, incarceration and their negative consequences (1 in 14 Black minors have a parent in prison; roughly 50% of parents in prison were their household's primary bread winner) are profound in the Black community. The gains made during the Civil Rights movement have largely been undone by these changes in law enforcement.

As such, it makes perfect sense that some African Americans would feel as though the police are their enemies. I imagine a pretty compelling argument could be made that the police do more harm than good in low-income Black communities.

Good post and I agree to some extent. However, there is a question that needs to be asked: How many of the black people that are in prison are there because they broke the law? It doesn't matter if you think the law is stupid, immoral, or flat out wrong; if you want to live in the USA, then you have to follow the rules. We typically have zero sympathy for other races that break the law and are incarcerated, so why do blacks get some sort of special attention?

Sometimes, it really is black and white: don't break the law, don't go to prison. Seriously.

 

[TroutBum]

Totally irrelevant to unarmed kid being shot multiple times and killed.

Unless the kid assaulted the officer and tried to disarm the cop, which has been reported.

Why I'm bothering? I really don't know.

 

[HighlandHomie]

Unless the kid assaulted the officer and tried to disarm the cop, which has been reported.

Why I'm bothering? I really don't know.

If he did, one shot by the cop to subdue the kid would suffice. If that shot had gone in the kid's head and killed him, that's part of the duty. But it has been established several shots were fired, the kid started to run and turned around with his hands up to surrender and was shot more times until he was dead.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Well ya, if you're going to do it, you might as well go for the brown-round.

You know me!

Well, thanks for being productive then? I know that when I want to change someone's mind or at least grease the gears, the first thing I do is attack their intelligence about that particular topic, and then admit that I don't have an answer or better idea. Doesn't always work, but if it doesn't, then those people are just as stupid as I told them they were. Also, everyone here knows you're smarter than me. Frankly, Hotttnickkk is about the only person I feel confident in my intellectual superiority.

You better know I was joking you pansy. You're very smart, in the dumbest way possible.

Common sense doesn't care if you're white, black, yellow, or pooh-brown. It's the universal equalizer.

Common sense is relative, bro.

I completely agree with your smoke analogy, but, ummm... All of the smoke is surrounding the kid, not the cop. Again, I ask for the information you have that is contrary to what I have, because I'd really like to know how you came to your conclusion.

Of course you agree, cause I'm ****ing right. The smoke for me is the following:

1. Unarmed black kid shot 6 times
2. Pulls them over, without cause (didn't know about the robbery)
3. Known racial tension in the region
4. History of police abuse
5. Total complete and total overreaction by local cops after the shooting, speaks to character

Salt Lake City, UT = 75% White
Salt Lake City, UT = 98% Hispanic Landscaping Crews

Come on....

I think it's safe to say that white guys don't typically get jobs on landscaping crews. It's not because of some racially intolerant society or Landscapers Union that is out to kill whitey, it's because of a myriad of factors including pay, hours, how labor intensive it is, and mostly, because most white guys are too proud to do that kind of work. Swap out Landscaping for McDonalds and the pieces still fit.

Landscapers don't carry automatic weapons. Although I weedwacker to the peen sure would hurt.

I'm sure the black community, who, judging by my white-bread upbringing, notoriously have worn the slogan "**** the police" around their culture like some sort of Medal of Honor, are lining up to fill out job applications with the police department.

Good point.

But what the **** would I know about it, I'm just a dumb white guy after all.

Yes, you're a dumb white guy. Me too. *highfive*

 

[HighlandHomie]

Unless the kid assaulted the officer and tried to disarm the cop, which has been reported.

Why I'm bothering? I really don't know.

But like I posted a few minutes ago, the shooting death of the kid is no longer the primary source of the outrage and unrest in that community and around the world. It is the power structure in this country.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

But like I posted a few minutes ago, the shooting death of the kid is no longer the primary source of the outrage and unrest in that community and around the world. It is the power structure in this country.

So the protestors realize that the deceased was breaking a law and no so innocent and now they have to shift their blind hate to something else because they realize they were wrong the first time around?

 

[GVC]

Good post and I agree to some extent. However, there is a question that needs to be asked: How many of the black people that are in prison are there because they broke the law? It doesn't matter if you think the law is stupid, immoral, or flat out wrong; if you want to live in the USA, then you have to follow the rules. We typically have zero sympathy for other races that break the law and are incarcerated, so why do blacks get some sort of special attention?

Sometimes, it really is black and white: don't break the law, don't go to prison. Seriously.

1. If the law and its enforcement does more harm than good, or if it effectively treats one group of people differently than another, the focus should be on the law and law enforcement and not on those who are their victims.

2. Had you grown up in an African American community, there's a much higher probability you'd have ended up in prison, given the youthful activities you've copped to. But hey, who cares if the law isn't enforced the same everywhere (as you've incorrectly assumed...)? I wonder if increases in penalties for white collar crimes have kept pace with increases in penalties for non-violent or non-property crimes (I honestly don't know the answer to this, but I have my suspicions)?

 

[Hantlers]

If a cop pulls a gun and you still come after him, then you're a moron who shouldn't be surprised when you get shot.

It's pretty simple: If a cop pulls a gun, stand down. This isn't difficult at all.

 

[TroutBum]

If he did, one shot by the cop to subdue the kid would suffice. If that shot had gone in the kid's head and killed him, that's part of the duty. But it has been established several shots were fired, the kid started to run and turned around with his hands up to surrender and was shot more times until he was dead.

Unless real life isn't Hollywood, and people don't just fall down dead as **** after one shot. Go youtube "police shootings caught on tape" and see how many shots some of those people take before they finally hit the ground. Never mind the fact that the kid was enormous. You can kill a fox with a single .22 slug, no problem. To kill a bear, however, you'll need to shoot him tens, if not hundreds of times before he stops charging. Size, adrenalin, and of course, the whole "this isn't NCIS" thing matter.

You know me!

Well, not biblically. Yet.

You better know I was joking you pansy. You're very smart, in the dumbest way possible.

I know, that's why I responded in kind. The first part of my response was cereal though.

Common sense is relative, bro.

Agreed, but it is certainly more reliable than emotional responses.

Of course you agree, cause I'm ****ing right. The smoke for me is the following:

1. Unarmed black kid shot 6 times

Easily explained by common sense. (See my replies to Dumb **** above) Backed up by reports in the media. Backed up by testimony from two witnesses. Backed up by the fact that the original story was told by a kid who just robbed a convenience store and has as much credibility as my left ball, which has pretty much been deemed false.

2. Pulls them over, without cause (didn't know about the robbery)

Except, according to reports, he didn't "pull anyone over", but instead told them to get out of the road. Which was followed by reports of insults being hurled at the officer while trying to provoke a fight. Which was followed by the cop driving away. According to the police, he received a call about the robbery after he pulled away, but turned around after the call.

3. Known racial tension in the region

So, the cop should have been like, "Ummm, I think those are the guys that robbed the Qwik-E-Mart, but man, there sure is a lot of racial tension around here... I should probably just let them carry on and have a good day."? So solly Challie, that's not how police do ****, thank the Gods.

4. History of police abuse

I have yet to hear or read about any past police abuse from the FPD. However, even if there was, my answer to #3 applies here as well.

5. Total complete and total overreaction by local cops after the shooting, speaks to character

Kind of like the reaction of protesters, looters, and rioters that go banana's before there is even a chance for the facts to come out? That's a dodge on my part, but seriously? Speaks to character? I think any police force would react the same way given #3 is correct. I could bring up the whole "**** the police" attitude that saturates the culture, which on top of #3 might explain any overreaction (and I use that term loosely, as I didn't see any) the police may have had. Throw some riots, looting, and vandalism into the mix and I'd say the FPD did exactly what the situation realistically called for.

Landscapers don't carry automatic weapons. Although I weedwacker to the peen sure would hurt.

Doesn't matter, the idea is still the same.

Good point.

I know.

Yes, you're a dumb white guy. Me too. *highfive*

At least we got huge dongs out of the whole deal.



Wait...

But like I posted a few minutes ago, the shooting death of the kid is no longer the primary source of the outrage and unrest in that community and around the world. It is the power structure in this country.

Wait, you mean nobody is outraged now that it is starting come out that the kid was a complete *** hat, and essentially got himself killed by being stupid? And now you're saying that people are starting to be infatuated with yet another myth that the media is stirring into the pot?

Gosh, this is really a shocking turn of events.

 

[framer]

If he did, one shot by the cop to subdue the kid would suffice. If that shot had gone in the kid's head and killed him, that's part of the duty. But it has been established several shots were fired, the kid started to run and turned around with his hands up to surrender and was shot more times until he was dead.

The narrative you outline has most definitely NOT been established. The current evidence would seem to contradict it. But that is why we should probably investigate before going all ape crap. . .

 

[Hotdog]

We have an incident where we don't know exactly what happened. There is a scenario where this cop would have had to use deadly force. We don't know for sure if he gunned down this "kid" "for no reason"

If the cops was being charged at from this "kid" just after having an altercation where he was struck in the face and had a wrestling match over his own gun, which went off during the struggle, then the cop is within his right to protect himself. He doesn't have to be gentle to the "gentle giant" at that point. I'm tired of this argument that he could have tazed him or something. The cop and Michael Brown were somewhere between 35 feet and less away from each other. It would only take a couple seconds for Michael Brown to reach the cop. But the cop can't wait all the way til he gets to him either. So this means he has to decide to kill or not kill in a matter of seconds. All while trying to control his emotions through all of this.

If this is what happened then Michael Brown asked for it and had it coming. Never ever will the people ever allow any citizen, no matter what color you are, to fight and wrestle with cops. Or reach to stop the cop from pulling his gun out. It's just ain't happening. Sorry. If you ever find a cop pointing a gun at you, you had better not make any sudden movements, and make any threatening gestures, and you should do exactly as he says. It's for the good of the situation right then and the future, no matter what. You can always try to fight it later. (Unless you just robbed a store and you don't want to go to jail and you would rather die than go to jail, then do what ever you can to not go)

 

[TroutBum]

1. If the law and its enforcement does more harm than good, or if it effectively treats one group of people differently than another, the focus should be on the law and law enforcement and not on those who are their victims.

So what you're saying is when a black person breaks the law, it is essentially the fault of the police that that person has committed a crime, and the perpetrators of the crimes are now considered "victims", right? I know that's not what you're really saying, but seriously, that's what you're saying.

2. Had you grown up in an African American community, there's a much higher probability you'd have ended up in prison, given the youthful activities you've copped to. But hey, who cares if the law isn't enforced the same everywhere (as you've incorrectly assumed...)?

I have no idea why you constantly bring up my past, and how I got away with stuff, in the context of these discussions. I got LUCKY, and that's the only reason I didn't end up in prison. As for the law being enforced differently, I don't know how I gave the impression that I disagree with you on that point, because I don't. But to me, your point is moot because -- wait for it -- if you're not breaking the law, you're not going to jail. Nobody forced you to break the law, you made that decision all by yourself. Those are fundamental facts that people like you willfully neglect when discussing this kind of ****.

I wonder if increases in penalties for white collar crimes have kept pace with increases in penalties for non-violent or non-property crimes (I honestly don't know the answer to this, but I have my suspicions)?

I doubt it very highly. In my next life, I'm totally getting into the Ponzi/Fraud business. The recent dismissal of that Provo Ponzi scheme case pretty much seals the deal for me.

3. I have no idea why you consider yourself a "liberal". You're a textbook authoritarian who just happens to vote Democrat and doesn't hate ****.

I don't consider myself a liberal. When I was 18, I put a big red R next to my name on the voter registration card. When I was in my late 20's, I changed it to a big D. Three or four years ago I changed it to Unaffiliated/Independent. My beliefs have changed over the years as I gained life experience. If this particular aspect of my thought process makes me an authoritarian in your eyes, then that's fine by me. I don't know their views, nor do I care.