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Police Power and Racial Tensions in Ferguson, Missouri

Jamezz said:
What bugs me the most about these trigger-happy cops is that in many cases the aggressor did not have a gun. A cop shouldn't gun someone down unless his own life is at risk. Can't they just shoot the guy in his leg and arrest him or something>
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This question has been asked and answered a few times already in the last few months.

No. Police CANNOT shoot someone in the leg. No one trained to carry a firearm is now or will ever be trained to shoot someone in the leg.

1-- When firing lethal projectiles you must have justification to use lethal force. There are no exceptions. If you have justification to use lethal force you must (you are duty bound) to use it to effectively stop the threat as reliably and as quickly as possible. Therefore, the only acceptable place to aim is at the largest part of your target, center mass (the chest). This provides you the greatest possibility of hitting your target. The least possibility of missing your target entirely and hitting something you did not intend to hit. The most reliable way to stop the threat in the shortest amount of time.

2-- Shooting handguns is clearly more difficult than Hollywood has lead you to believe. In a dynamic, stressful and changing environment, such as a lethal force situation will likely be, first, reacting to a lethal threat by evaluating whether or not you should shoot center mass or at a much smaller target like a leg is time that could get you and other innocent people killed. Shots that miss the leg could kill innocent people. Missed shots leave the threat active. Even shots on target may be ineffective.

3-- Aimed shots at appendages indicate the the situation was not life threatening and that lethal force was not justified. Due to the fact that shooting someone in the leg might still be lethal, or that those shots have a greater chance of missing, which increases the chance that those lethal projectiles will strike an unintended target, you cannot use firearms in non-lethal threat situations. Ever. If you attempt to use a firearm to stop a non-lethal threat and end up killing that person or an innocent person you are responsible for the unjustified killing.

4-- Firearms training needs to be highly focused and lead to instinctive responses. When faced with a life threatening situation it is critical that a person respond in a split second and in such a way that is most likely to stop the threat before any innocent people are harmed. If a person is deciding which of the five tools on their belt they should use, and what part of the body they should aim at...well, it's too late now. Indecisiveness, choosing the wrong option, fumbling about, over thinking, these things can get you or other innocent people killed. You need to eliminate as much confusion and complication as possible when you train. You train to safely draw and then fire at center mass at the lethal threat until that threat is stopped. That's how training to use a firearm works.


NEVER WILL LAW ENFORCEMENT TRAIN TO SHOOT LEGS. THAT IS KINDERGARTEN LEVEL THINKING BY PEOPLE WHO DON"T HAVE A CLUE.
 
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Final thought on this subject. Some people made up their mind on this the moment they read the story. If that applies to you, you are an idiot. After seeing the Wilson interview, I have no doubt this was NOT a cold blooded murder, as some would have you believe. I still believe Wilson may have acted excessively, but I really don't give a **** about some jackass who punched a cop for telling him not to walk in the middle of the street. ****ty situation, but one of these people was trying to do a job, while the other douche was acting like a thug.
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I have no problem with the outcome, but I'm more than willing to admit that this has shined some light on a VERY real problem. Hopefully, the nation's police force understands that they are hereby on notice.
 
freakazoid said:
Final thought on this subject. Some people made up their mind on this the moment they read the story. If that applies to you, you are an idiot. After seeing the Wilson interview, I have no doubt this was NOT a cold blooded murder, as some would have you believe. I still believe Wilson may have acted excessively, but I really don't give a **** about some jackass who punched a cop for telling him not to walk in the middle of the street. ****ty situation, but one of these people was trying to do a job, while the other douche was acting like a thug.
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I have no problem with the outcome, but I'm more than willing to admit that this has shined some light on a VERY real problem. Hopefully, the nation's police force understands that they are hereby on notice.
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He should at least have gone to trial. The fact he didn't is the biggest sham of them all. The National Guard being armed and deployed right on time in Ferguson, but no-shows after Hurricane Katrina when called upon speaks volumes. Darren Wilson, McCulloch and all the cohorts (including mindless white racist supporters who feel the need to call Brown a thug) the rest deserve to burn alive.
 
HighlandHomie said:
He should at least have gone to trial. The fact he didn't is the biggest sham of them all. The National Guard being armed and deployed right on time in Ferguson, but no-shows after Hurricane Katrina when called upon speaks volumes. Darren Wilson, McCulloch and all the cohorts (including mindless white racist supporters who feel the need to call Brown a thug) the rest deserve to burn alive.
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I am very aware of the fact that you may be right, however, I believe you would make the same claims at the first sight of something like this, rather than trying to make an informed opinion. You are bias, and there's no other way of saying it. I've had my own run-ins with cops in my life, and believe me, I can relate to your hatred. Just the same, I will continue to try and form an honest opinion in every case, rather than lumping them all into one category, which you obviously do. I almost stood up for you when trout was trashing you in the J Smith thread, but I'm glad I deleted that.
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I really believe that you are capable of being a valuable poster, but maybe you let your passion get in the way. Nothing wrong with being passionate about critical issues like you are, but maybe be a little more objectionable and less one-sided. You could be a stallion, if you'd only learn how to run without stomping everything in your path. Just a thought.
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P.S. Brown not a thug? Watch the ****ing video of him in the corner store before this happened. Only a dumbass would argue he wasn't a thug. That doesn't mean killing him was justified, but only an idiot jackass would claim he wasn't a thug. Bitch was a thug, and bitches get stitches and wind up in ditches. Anybody street knows that, wanabee.
 
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Posted: Nov 26, 2014 11:42 AM CST
Updated: Nov 26, 2014 11:42 AM CST
by Nichole Mischke, KHQ Right Now ReporterCONNECT

KHQ.COM - Benjamin Watson who plays for the New Orleans Saints posted the following on his Facebook page and it has since gone viral:

"At some point while I was playing or preparing to play Monday Night Football, the news broke about the Ferguson Decision. After trying to figure out how I felt, I decided to write it down. Here are my thoughts:

I'M ANGRY because the stories of injustice that have been passed down for generations seem to be continuing before our very eyes.

I'M FRUSTRATED, because pop culture, music and movies glorify these types of police citizen altercations and promote an invincible attitude that continues to get young men killed in real life, away from safety movie sets and music studios.

I'M FEARFUL because in the back of my mind I know that although I'm a law abiding citizen I could still be looked upon as a "threat" to those who don't know me. So I will continue to have to go the extra mile to earn the benefit of the doubt.

I'M EMBARRASSED because the looting, violent protests, and law breaking only confirm, and in the minds of many, validate, the stereotypes and thus the inferior treatment.

I'M SAD, because another young life was lost from his family, the racial divide has widened, a community is in shambles, accusations, insensitivity hurt and hatred are boiling over, and we may never know the truth about what happened that day.

I'M SYMPATHETIC, because I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what happened. Maybe Darren Wilson acted within his rights and duty as an officer of the law and killed Michael Brown in self defense like any of us would in the circumstance. Now he has to fear the backlash against himself and his loved ones when he was only doing his job. What a horrible thing to endure. OR maybe he provoked Michael and ignited the series of events that led to him eventually murdering the young man to prove a point.

I'M OFFENDED, because of the insulting comments I've seen that are not only insensitive but dismissive to the painful experiences of others.

I'M CONFUSED, because I don't know why it's so hard to obey a policeman. You will not win!!! And I don't know why some policeman abuse their power. Power is a responsibility, not a weapon to brandish and lord over the populace.

I'M INTROSPECTIVE, because sometimes I want to take "our" side without looking at the facts in situations like these. Sometimes I feel like it's us against them. Sometimes I'm just as prejudiced as people I point fingers at. And that's not right. How can I look at white skin and make assumptions but not want assumptions made about me? That's not right.

I'M HOPELESS, because I've lived long enough to expect things like this to continue to happen. I'm not surprised and at some point my little children are going to inherit the weight of being a minority and all that it entails.

I'M HOPEFUL, because I know that while we still have race issues in America, we enjoy a much different normal than those of our parents and grandparents. I see it in my personal relationships with teammates, friends and mentors. And it's a beautiful thing...."
 
I swear, it seems like HH is wishing death upon multiple people, even posters (although he won't name names -- coward), over their opinions. That's really pathetic.

Anyhow, I have already stated how I feel about this situation multiple times, so I'm just going to sit back and relish the thought of how angry HH is.

Cops > Thugs > Science
 
moevillini said:
Posted: Nov 26, 2014 11:42 AM CST
Updated: Nov 26, 2014 11:42 AM CST
by Nichole Mischke, KHQ Right Now ReporterCONNECT

KHQ.COM - Benjamin Watson who plays for the New Orleans Saints posted the following on his Facebook page and it has since gone viral:

"At some point while I was playing or preparing to play Monday Night Football, the news broke about the Ferguson Decision. After trying to figure out how I felt, I decided to write it down. Here are my thoughts:

I'M ANGRY because the stories of injustice that have been passed down for generations seem to be continuing before our very eyes.

I'M FRUSTRATED, because pop culture, music and movies glorify these types of police citizen altercations and promote an invincible attitude that continues to get young men killed in real life, away from safety movie sets and music studios.

I'M FEARFUL because in the back of my mind I know that although I'm a law abiding citizen I could still be looked upon as a "threat" to those who don't know me. So I will continue to have to go the extra mile to earn the benefit of the doubt.

I'M EMBARRASSED because the looting, violent protests, and law breaking only confirm, and in the minds of many, validate, the stereotypes and thus the inferior treatment.

I'M SAD, because another young life was lost from his family, the racial divide has widened, a community is in shambles, accusations, insensitivity hurt and hatred are boiling over, and we may never know the truth about what happened that day.

I'M SYMPATHETIC, because I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what happened. Maybe Darren Wilson acted within his rights and duty as an officer of the law and killed Michael Brown in self defense like any of us would in the circumstance. Now he has to fear the backlash against himself and his loved ones when he was only doing his job. What a horrible thing to endure. OR maybe he provoked Michael and ignited the series of events that led to him eventually murdering the young man to prove a point.

I'M OFFENDED, because of the insulting comments I've seen that are not only insensitive but dismissive to the painful experiences of others.

I'M CONFUSED, because I don't know why it's so hard to obey a policeman. You will not win!!! And I don't know why some policeman abuse their power. Power is a responsibility, not a weapon to brandish and lord over the populace.

I'M INTROSPECTIVE, because sometimes I want to take "our" side without looking at the facts in situations like these. Sometimes I feel like it's us against them. Sometimes I'm just as prejudiced as people I point fingers at. And that's not right. How can I look at white skin and make assumptions but not want assumptions made about me? That's not right.

I'M HOPELESS, because I've lived long enough to expect things like this to continue to happen. I'm not surprised and at some point my little children are going to inherit the weight of being a minority and all that it entails.

I'M HOPEFUL, because I know that while we still have race issues in America, we enjoy a much different normal than those of our parents and grandparents. I see it in my personal relationships with teammates, friends and mentors. And it's a beautiful thing...."
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You left a part out at the end :/. Keeping it secular eh?
 
Nightmare said:
You left a part out at the end :/. Keeping it secular eh?
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here's a link to the full statement:
https://www.facebook.com/BenjaminWatsonOfficial/posts/602172116576590

(meant to include that with the initial post, sorry)

And yes I did leave off the last part in the "HOPEUL" paragraph because I felt it might sidetrack the discussion too much. It was very heavy on the idea of sin, and following the Gospel as provided by the Lord through his son Jesus Christ - it seemed far less universal in its scope that the rest of his statement. It also seemed to deal far less with his feelings about the specific situation and more about feelings towards life in general.

Bottom line, for me at least, is that it is important to try to understand how the Ferguson incident and the lack of an indictment is seen from the perspective of thoughtful Black men who would like to look for remedies. That is why I also included the statement earlier from the Principal at my local high school. The hopelessness in both statements is rather sad, but very understandable to me.

I wonder how others feel?
 
moevillini said:
here's a link to the full statement:
https://www.facebook.com/BenjaminWatsonOfficial/posts/602172116576590

(meant to include that with the initial post, sorry)

And yes I did leave off the last part in the "HOPEUL" paragraph because I felt it might sidetrack the discussion too much. It was very heavy on the idea of sin, and following the Gospel as provided by the Lord through his son Jesus Christ - it seemed far less universal in its scope that the rest of his statement. It also seemed to deal far less with his feelings about the specific situation and more about feelings towards life in general.

Bottom line, for me at least, is that it is important to try to understand how the Ferguson incident and the lack of an indictment is seen from the perspective of thoughtful Black men who would like to look for remedies. That is why I also included the statement earlier from the Principal at my local high school. The hopelessness in both statements is rather sad, but very understandable to me.

I wonder how others feel?
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Did you edit it out later? Because I read that part and thought I had read it as part of your post.

My reaction to that part was a major eye roll and really losing the power and meaning of what he had written before.
 
Gameface said:
Did you edit it out later? Because I read that part and thought I had read it as part of your post.

My reaction to that part was a major eye roll and really losing the power and meaning of what he had written before.
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I felt exactly the same. Sort of unfortunate in a way, but that's almost always how I react to any heavy handed religious proselytizing. That part of his statement was far less universal in its philosophy than the rest of the statement. Many people who don't share his feelings on religious grounds can still share the other sentiments he's expressed and arrive at a similar conclusion.
 
at any rate, I'm glad that the NFL has decided NOT to fine the STL Rams players who came onto the field for their game on Sunday with their hands raised

But I do hope the players and the team use this as a teachable moment for how encounters between police officers and citizens should be handled - - there seems to be plenty of room for improvement from both sides

https://news.yahoo.com/no-fine-rams-players-involved-ferguson-protest-nfl-054146171--nfl.html

...The St. Louis Police Officers Association was angered by the Rams' protest at Sunday's game, calling for the players involved to be disciplined and for the team and the NFL to apologize.

"I know that there are those that will say that these players are simply exercising their First Amendment rights," said Jeff Roorda, the association's business manager. "Cops have first amendment rights too, and we plan to exercise ours."

The Rams said in a statement late on Monday the team had "positive discussions" with officials from the Officers Association and chiefs of city and county police departments during which the team expressed respect "for their concerns surrounding yesterday's game"....
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