Poll: Should the Conley Experiment End?

[sahlensguy]

I'm starting to think that the Rudy Gobert experiment needs to end.

Trade him for a real piece this offseason.

I'm starting to think that the Rudy Gobert experiment needs to end.

Trade him for a real piece this offseason.

Perhaps but in fairness, they never built around Rudy.

So how could anyone have faith anymore that Lindsey/Zanik could build a team from the ground up?

 

[LoPo]

Perhaps but in fairness, they never built around Rudy.

So how could anyone have faith anymore that Lindsey/Zanik could build a team from the ground up?

The whole team is built around Rudy. When he's in, seems every set is around him screening and rolling. We even added that cheeky little dive off the elbow. Defensively, its all built to funnel to him. We added shooters (Bojan and Conley over Rubio and Favors) to give him more space.

This team is built around Rudy. And it doesn't work.

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[J-mac23]

I haven't posted here in a long time, but I think this is a good time to remind people of this:

https://www.deseret.com/platform/am...edly-does-not-want-to-get-traded-to-utah-jazz

I don't think Conley ever wanted to be on the team, and it shows. But the front office wanted to get him at all costs anyway.

 

[Getting Traded]

If there ever was a game to show how much the FO f'd up, it was last night. I have to say C-Jazz was right about Ricky. Sure, he's a bad shooter and that was the problem, Quin didn't use him properly, encouraging him to shoot. Like I said last year, he would be good, coming off the bench instead of starting, controlling the offense, which would've prevented a lot of these big runs teams are having against us. Now, we have Conley who isn't even good off the bench the way our team is constructed. When we had Mudiay and Clarkson off the bench together, we were killing teams. Now with Conley playing and being the ball dominant player, he takes away from not only Joe and Donovan's contributions, but Clarkson as well. Mudiay played perfectly with Clarkson. The problem with Mike is not that he's a bad player, but that he's a bad fit with this team.

 

[sahlensguy]

The whole team is built around Rudy. When he's in, seems every set is around him screening and rolling. We even added that cheeky little dive off the elbow. Defensively, its all built to funnel to him. We added shooters (Bojan and Conley over Rubio and Favors) to give him more space.

This team is built around Rudy. And it doesn't work.

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Personel wise it's not built around him though and that's the problem. No other great defenders, but we want to be a top team built around a defensive center.
If you have the best defender in the world you can stick him on an island like we have done, or build the world's best defense around him.

The best defender we've had to go along with him in this era is Donte friggin Exum...

We've never built around him.

 

[LoPo]

Personel wise it's not built around him though and that's the problem. No other great defenders, but we want to be a top team built around a defensive center.
If you have the best defender in the world you can stick him on an island like we have done, or build the world's best defense around him.

The best defender we've had to go along with him in this era is Donte friggin Exum...

We've never built around him.

I disagree 100%.

We all thought that our defense was so good led by Rudy that we acquired offensive talent to mask his biggest weakness which is offensive ability. We brought in a "better PG" to make his life easier. We replaced Favors to give Gobert space.

If we didn't build around Gobert, who did we build around?
Donovan? No, because if we did he would be our PG and Conley wouldn't have been targeted.
Joe? Nope

This team is 100% built around a pillar in the middle at both ends. It's shooters and average defenders because Rudy is there to clean up our messes. It doesn't work.

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[Deleted member 365]

Conley has looked terrible for most of the season. If he and Mudiay, our third stringer, had played without names on their jerseys, would anyone be advocating for Conley? Seems like loyalty to Conley is based on what he did on Memphis rather than anything he’s done here.

 

[sahlensguy]

I disagree 100%.

We all thought that our defense was so good led by Rudy that we acquired offensive talent to mask his biggest weakness which is offensive ability. We brought in a "better PG" to make his life easier. We replaced Favors to give Gobert space.

If we didn't build around Gobert, who did we build around?
Donovan? No, because if we did he would be our PG and Conley wouldn't have been targeted.
Joe? Nope

This team is 100% built around a pillar in the middle at both ends. It's shooters and average defenders because Rudy is there to clean up our messes. It doesn't work.

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We didn't build around Rudy's strength, like at all. Funnelling the D inl

I disagree 100%.

We all thought that our defense was so good led by Rudy that we acquired offensive talent to mask his biggest weakness which is offensive ability. We brought in a "better PG" to make his life easier. We replaced Favors to give Gobert space.

If we didn't build around Gobert, who did we build around?
Donovan? No, because if we did he would be our PG and Conley wouldn't have been targeted.
Joe? Nope

This team is 100% built around a pillar in the middle at both ends. It's shooters and average defenders because Rudy is there to clean up our messes. It doesn't work.

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When you have a guy who is the best in the world at something that the club feels they can build a contender around, then build around him. What Lindsey/Snyder has done is try to build Rudy around them.

Exum was the best on ball defender that was paired with Rudy. Almost everyone else just funnelled the ball inside. Exum stopped the ball at the point of attack (early years).

After that Rudy wasn't supported. Rather they all leaned on him.

I'm not sure if a world class D is enough to contend, but we're a small market team who needs to think about maxing our unique style to the fullest. We're not LA.

 

[LoPo]

Make the following trade:

Knicks get Conley and future Charlotte picks
Hornets get Randle
Jazz get Ntilikina and 2nds from Charlotte

Knicks get picks and somebody to maybe clean the culture.

Hornets get a guy they wanted at the deadline.

We clear tons of cap space and get a perimeter defender.

Pull the Conley bandaid.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

Make the following trade:

Knicks get Conley and future Charlotte picks
Hornets get Randle
Jazz get Ntilikina and 2nds from Charlotte

Knicks get picks and somebody to maybe clean the culture.

Hornets get a guy they wanted at the deadline.

We clear tons of cap space and get a perimeter defender.

Pull the Conley bandaid.

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I’m fine with cap clearing moves but unless we move Ed or Tony as well this move leaves us about 15Mish in space... assuming we lock JC in at around 10M. He has a 20M caphold and we likely get our first this year. I’d say in any cap clearing deal the Davis goes as part of the deal to really give us something to work with. 15M isn’t too much different than the MLE but does get you in the conversation with guys you might not be otherwise.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I have a feeling Donovan and Rudy both want to be the alpha and neither one relents (although Donovan seems to take a back seat a lot more than Rudy). Rudy knows the team is better in the regular season long haul because of him. Donovan knows Rudy won't be as successful and he has to be the alpha for postseason success.

In many ways, this team reminds me of the Iverson 76ers. That team was elite for one year making it to the finals. That year, Iverson got red hot in the playoffs and Mutombo didn't demand the ball. He just stayed in his lane. Would Rudy do that if Mitchell hit another level? I have my doubts.

Donovan is a 10 year player. Rudy is maybe a 5 year. If they don't work, your solution is simple.

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They do work when you put good pieces around them. The pieces aren't great and they are dogging it right now. I do think there is some tension there... not a lot, but something that could build.

The issue is if you trade Rudy you are now down to one all star level player and unless that trade brings another all star level player back it will be hard to match DM up with someone that can get you more than a first round exit. And the cycle will continue.

I think the supermax for Rudy is a bad idea with what is happening to the center position. We can negotiate a regular max with him this offseason or just an extension... doesn't have to be any of the max type options... if he is unreasonable or shows some unwillingness to sign that is when you consider moving him. I just worry the trade market will be tepid... Andre just got salary dumped and Capela landed a first in a ****** draft. Honestly if you aren't getting an all star type talent in return for him then you may as well extend DM (for a mega haul) but look to move him in a year because you are locking in mediocrity. I just don't think we are anywhere near that point. Rudy and DM are great compliments to each other. DM is a combo guard that doesn't need a true pg next to him... he needs to be the smallest guy on the court to help the defense work.

It's also weird that Rudy goes through stretches were he can't be stopped and then the Rockets tiny guys are able to keep him really quiet all night. He is capable of punishing those teams and at times has been completely dominant. Kinda like he's saying he **** you guys if you aren't going to throw me the ball or try a little on defense I ain't killing myself tonight.

 

[LoPo]

I’m fine with cap clearing moves but unless we move Ed or Tony as well this move leaves us about 15Mish in space... assuming we lock JC in at around 10M. He has a 20M caphold and we likely get our first this year. I’d say in any cap clearing deal the Davis goes as part of the deal to really give us something to work with. 15M isn’t too much different than the MLE but does get you in the conversation with guys you might not be otherwise.

We could easily add Davis to Charlotte. They have a ton of cap space, the need for post depth, and they aren't a destination for an average free agent class.

So...

Knicks get Conley and draft stuff from Cha
Cha get Randle and Davis
Jazz get Ntilikina and a 2nd from Cha

We clear cap, admit our Conley mistake, and get a perimeter defender we hope restarts his career by playing with buddies Rudy and Donovan.

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