Poll: Would you do this trade? Stephen Jackson and Nazr Mohammed (expiring) for AK?

[NUMBERICA]

There are only two years left on his contract and dude's putting up very good numbers. In other words, we see no sign that he's slowing down. He also doesn't have the extra season or so of post-season games that someone like Rip or Kobe has built up over the years.

The problem is that once a wing is past 30 you never know when their playing just dives off of a cliff. Jackson has played some minutes over his career and hasn't been known to exactly been a gym rat, either. 3 years left on that deal is really toxic, and Jax plays losing basketball half the time and being as old and seasoned as he is, I see no indication he's just suddenly get it once he's here. If you compare Jax and Miles, Jax scores more PPS and has better 3-pt and FT shooting percentages, but Miles has a better PER and a better +/- while being vastly less experienced, nearly 10 years younger, and guaranteed to only get better or not get worse for a long time while you can only guarantee Jackson will get worse. I'm not saying Miles is the answer, just a comparison to show my doubt that Jax is.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

He'll be 33 and have 24,000 career minutes by playoff time and make $10.5 million this year, next year (2011-12), and the following year (2012-13 - it's a PO but not even Cap Jack would walk away from that). Also he doesn't really shoot a significantly higher percentage than Kirilenko, and we have no idea how well/if he'd fit into the Jazz's system - and even if he does it who knows how long that will take. If the Jazz move AK, I'd prefer a large chunk of the return to be expirings as well. If they take back a long-term contract, it better be for someone who makes them a legitimate top-5 team in the league and Jackson doesn't do that. I don't see the benefits outweighing the costs.

About 6M of it does expire though and if we're being realistic, we're not going to get some Top 15 player in a trade. And while he may not shoot a lot better percentage than AK, it is better. Then figure in his balls, his ability to create and get to the rim or line (AK has zero ability to do that), his passion and intensity and leadership (again, things AK is totally lacking), his ability to stay healthy, and his lack of drama (which is scary considering we're talking about SJax), and it's an upgrade in so many ways. Like I said, he has just two years left. Not three or four. And we'll have Memo's expiring to trade as a chip next season as well.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

The problem is that once a wing is past 30 you never know when their playing just dives off of a cliff. Jackson has played some minutes over his career and hasn't been known to exactly been a gym rat, either. 3 years left on that deal is really toxic, and Jax plays losing basketball half the time and being as old and seasoned as he is, I see no indication he's just suddenly get it once he's here. If you compare Jax and Miles, Jax scores more PPS and has better 3-pt and FT shooting percentages, but Miles has a better PER and a better +/- while being vastly less experienced, nearly 10 years younger, and guaranteed to only get better or not get worse for a long time while you can only guarantee Jackson will get worse. I'm not saying Miles is the answer, just a comparison to show my doubt that Jax is.

Two years left.

 

[NUMBERICA]

While his 42% FG season average is certainly lower than I'd like, I think in the Jazz offense his percentage would go up significantly. In Charlotte, he is the number 1 option in a bad offense where defenses key in on him. Here, he'd share the shots with DWill, Paul, and AJ (and now, deservedly, Hayward). Being in Utah would eliminate the isolation-centric offense he plays in and would substitute the Jazz' flex. He'd do very, very well here.

That reasoning works well only if he knows how to play in a team. We're seeing how smoothly Al has been transitioning from being a black-hole to whatever it is he is trying to do right now. Some guys that argument works for, and maybe Jackson's one of them, but I've seen him chuck with reckless abandon and be a cancer (granted, in a horrible beyond words GS organization) enough to give pause. Everyone should give pause to the idea of acquiring a guy like Jax.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Why do you think Miles' +/- is so much better? Because the Hornets blow. Put Miles on the Hornets and let's see what his +/- is. C'mon man, you're better than that.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Two years left.

AFTER this season. That's a long ****ing time.

 

[chemdude1232]

That reasoning works well only if he knows how to play in a team. We're seeing how smoothly Al has been transitioning from being a black-hole to whatever it is he is trying to do right now. Some guys that argument works for, and maybe Jackson's one of them, but I've seen him chuck with reckless abandon and be a cancer (granted, in a horrible beyond words GS organization) enough to give pause. Everyone should give pause to the idea of acquiring a guy like Jax.

I agree with your caution in principle. Underlying subtext to my post was that he played in San Antonio for Pop and I don't recall incidents where the two of them were at each other's throats or anything. My point being: I think Jax could adapt to Jerry (well, at least as much as anyone can). Deron, Paul, and AJ all seem to have the winning mentality locked up, and perhaps it would rub off on Stephen.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Yes, after this season. We have AK this season and then he expires so all that really matters financially is AFTER this season, SJax has just two years left.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Why do you think Miles' +/- is so much better? Because the Hornets blow. Put Miles on the Hornets and let's see what his +/- is. C'mon man, you're better than that.

The Hornets? And net +/- takes care of how bad the team is. It's relative to your own team's performance. Miles makes the Jazz - an already good team in a competitive conference and division - better when he's on the floor and your argument actually strengthens mine while Jackson makes his already bad team a little worse. PER is another objective all-encompassing metric that says Miles is better.

Again, my point is not necessarily that Miles is a more talented player, or scores better, or whatever. My point is they're comparable players and one is only going to get worse.

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

https://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28avcpn

How about this one?

 

[NUMBERICA]

Yes, after this season. We have AK this season and then he expires so all that really matters financially is AFTER this season, SJax has just two years left.

Oh, okay. Either way, my point(s) stand. And two years past the expiration of the current CBA in a bad economy for a guy well-past 30 making 8 digits COULD be a woeful decision only paralleled by giving AK a max deal. I don't hate Jax, I just think the situation is a HELL of a gamble. I'd rather fish Memo and see from there because that's a much, much less risky maneuver.

 

[chemdude1232]

https://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28avcpn

How about this one?

I don't see Charlotte giving up their two best players - by far their two best - for AK and a rook. I think we could con them into one of those guys, but not both. They're rebuilding, not suicidal. I think.

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

I don't see Charlotte giving up their two best players - by far their two best - for AK and a rook. I think we could con them into one of those guys, but not both. They're rebuilding, not suicidal. I think.

To save 18M and pick up a lottery pick? They might.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

The Hornets? And net +/- takes care of how bad the team is. It's relative to your own team's performance. Miles makes the Jazz - an already good team in a competitive conference and division - better when he's on the floor and your argument actually strengthens mine while Jackson makes his already bad team a little worse. PER is another objective all-encompassing metric that says Miles is better.

Again, my point is not necessarily that Miles is a more talented player, or scores better, or whatever. My point is they're comparable players and one is only going to get worse.

I meant the Bobcats. And c'mon bro, C.J. Miles has the best +/- on our team. Does that means he's better than the rest of our guys? Contributes more than them? Makes the rest of our team that much better? Bro, our wings are mediocre and he's one of the reasons why.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Oh, okay. Either way, my point(s) stand. And two years past the expiration of the current CBA in a bad economy for a guy well-past 30 making 8 digits COULD be a woeful decision only paralleled by giving AK a max deal. I don't hate Jax, I just think the situation is a HELL of a gamble. I'd rather fish Memo and see from there because that's a much, much less risky maneuver.

He'll be making 11M, not 17.8M. It's not that toxic.

I'm curious. What would you do then? Stand pat.

 

[chemdude1232]

For the wing position one thing I think Jax would be great at is physicality. He's lengthy enough to match up against the 2s and 3s that the Jazz would see in the playoffs and would be able to knock them on their butts once or twice (sending a message...that kind of thing). Sure, AK is lengthy too, but Jax seems like he'd take it to them just a bit more fervently. If that makes sense.

 

[VINYLONE]

I think Patrick has thought this out...well done.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't see Charlotte giving up their two best players - by far their two best - for AK and a rook. I think we could con them into one of those guys, but not both. They're rebuilding, not suicidal. I think.

Charlotte has been managed nightmarishly bad. They dumped their highest draft pick for what ended up being absolutely nothing, they essentially let their second-highest draft pick walk to the Knicks and looks like a stud now, they traded their best-scoring wing for old role players, and then changed their mind and traded the better player on the better contract and some other garbage for a different scoring wing that is older and worse. They've sold draft picks when they didn't have enough talent and traded away players on rookie deals to get older players even though they haven't been in the contention hunt by a mile. Hopefully Jordan has a clue how to run that team but they dug themselves into a hell of a whole. The best thing that organization has done by a light-year was draft and see Gerald Wallace emerge, and he's not even that great. They have two clear assets; Augustin and Wallace, and that's really ****ing pathetic.

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

I think if the Jazz were going to make a move now would be a good time to do it. Dallas is getting hit with some injuries (Butler looks like he done for awhile if not the season and Dirk missing games). The Lakers look as vulnerable as they have been in a number of years. The only teams clearly better than the Jazz are SA & LAL(looking more beatable though).

 

[chemdude1232]

Charlotte has been managed nightmarishly bad. They dumped their highest draft pick for what ended up being absolutely nothing, they essentially let their second-highest draft pick walk to the Knicks and looks like a stud now, they traded their best-scoring wing for old role players, and then changed their mind and traded the better player on the better contract and some other garbage for a different scoring wing that is older and worse. They've sold draft picks when they didn't have enough talent and traded away players on rookie deals to get older players even though they haven't been in the contention hunt by a mile. Hopefully Jordan has a clue how to run that team but they dug themselves into a hell of a whole. The best thing that organization has done by a light-year was draft and see Gerald Wallace emerge, and he's not even that great. They have two clear assets; Augustin and Wallace, and that's really ****ing pathetic.

Not being argumentative, but how much of that was when MJ was piloting the ship? I don't think he'd sign off on their two stars leaving to the same team for a guy like AK and a rookie.