Prop 2 Utah

[oneye]

I guess I should have phrased it as they lost in the long-term. A bad move both politically and legally if the desire was to win converts and/or prevent gay marriage.

Likewise, I see defeating prop 2 as a short-term victory and yet another long-term loss. Do we really believe that:
a) marijuana will remain illegal in utah in 10+ years despite being surrounded by states that will have legalized it?
b) do we really see this as an issue that will win converts or further alienate the church from society?

Let’s get on with it. Vote yes for prop 2.

 

[colton]

2 Questions:

1. Doesn’t the LDS church claim during sacrament meetings at least to be “politically neutral?” If not explicitly then implicitly, there’s a message that it abstains from politics. Which clearly, doesn’t happen. This being the most recent example. Does this effect younger and more progressive members? Will it impact their retention?

2. Will this email backfire? This could potentially energize nonmormon voters (who might normally not even vote) to vote for the prop to merely “stick it to the man.” The church hasn’t exactly won a big legal battle like this for a while. The last time they formally organized like this, they helped speed along the legalization of same sex marriages.

Personally, I’m a card carrying member but I think the church should STFU. If they want to involve themselves in politics, as they’ve done many times in the past, then involve yourself in items that matter. They’ve involved themselves in the past with immigration and housing discrimination legislation. Yet, I haven’t seen anything recently about Trump, immigrant children in cages, or the overall pathetic housing situation affecting the state.

If you’re going to send me an email about prop 2 then you better damn well send me an email about 500+ children being traumatized by our completely immoral president. If members were organized by the church and forced their elected representatives among states like Idaho, Arizona, and utah, they really could end this horrific border situation created by our president immediately.

Sadly, keeping the gays unmarried and opioids legal (MJ not) seems to be the priority of the church’s epically bad PR dept.

I remember this church statement in June, don't you?
https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-statement-separation-of-families-at-us-mexico-border

And the church is politically neutral in the sense that they don't endorse candidates or parties. But they have always reserved the right to speak out on specific issues. Here's the politically neutral statement: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/official-statement/political-neutrality

 

[Deleted member 365]

I remember this church statement in June, don't you?
https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-statement-separation-of-families-at-us-mexico-border

And the church is politically neutral in the sense that they don't endorse candidates or parties. But they have always reserved the right to speak out on specific issues. Here's the politically neutral statement: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/official-statement/political-neutrality

Thanks for the political neutrality clarification.

However, with regards to putting children into cages, a church’s statement is different than actually emailing all members directing them to do amcertain thing, no? Putting pressure on Utah’s, Idaho’s, and Arizona’s elected officials to speak out against the “Modern-day King Noah” and his policy would’ve led to reuniting these families quicker.

Definitely wish they organized and spoke out against this like they just did with prop 2. This is just horrific. One of the worst things I’ve seen our country do. A moral catastrophe:

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Thanks for the political neutrality clarification.

However, with regards to putting children into cages, a church’s statement is different than actually emailing all members directing them to do amcertain thing, no? Putting pressure on Utah’s, Idaho’s, and Arizona’s elected officials to speak out against the “Modern-day King Noah” and his policy would’ve led to reuniting these families quicker.

Definitely wish they organized and spoke out against this like they just did with prop 2. This is just horrific. One of the worst things I’ve seen our country do. A moral catastrophe:

Was there a proposition the Church could encourage members to vote on in regards to the children?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

In Utah you already can get medical products with CBD in it.
You cannot get products with THC in it.
This proposition is more about growing, selling, distributing mj in the raw form than it is about anything else.

I would prefer a change to allow medical products to have THC in it, and leave the growing, distributing of mary jane as a separate proposition.
I think we could get most or all to agree to the medical use aspect of things.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I am interested in understanding this better, and I think there are some of you that post here that know more than I do on this.
Here is my question.

What is the pain relief differences if any between CBD based products and those with THC, as well as what are the benefits to products with both?
I know there are psychoactive properties with THC that may or may not be useful, and the CBD is calming, but as to pain relief are they equal? Are they effective for different types of pain?

Thanks,
Spazz

 

[colton]

I am interested in understanding this better, and I think there are some of you that post here that know more than I do on this.
Here is my question.

What is the pain relief differences if any between CBD based products and those with THC, as well as what are the benefits to products with both?
I know there are psychoactive properties with THC that may or may not be useful, and the CBD is calming, but as to pain relief are they equal? Are they effective for different types of pain?

Thanks,
Spazz

I can't speak for all types of pain, but I researched this for my wife's specific chronic pain condition. In her case, CBD looked like it might have some benefits, but not THC. Or at least, the psychoactive side effects of THC made it so she wasn't interested in trying it.

And by the way, your previous statement that "In Utah you already can get medical products with CBD in it" is not totally accurate. As far as I could tell when I researched this a couple of months ago, CBD oil in Utah is legal only (a) if you have epilepsy (and get a prescription from a neurologist), or (b) if you are participating in a medical trial. So it's not legal for most medical purposes, including my wife's chronic pain, even with absolutely no THC in it. Which is incredibly stupid and frustrating. So while we were in Germany over the summer, where CBD oil that contains no THC is perfectly legal over the counter, we got some for her to try. Unfortunately it didn't seem to help. :-(

 

[JazzGal]

My friend has pretty severe pain from a car accident she was in this summer. Her brother works in a MedMJ dispensary in Oregon, so she was able to try both types. She said CBD oil didn't help the pain, but THC did. She's trying to get some more because she has bad side effects from opioids, but she has seven children and needs to be able to function with less pain. I suppose it will be different for everyone.

I would love to try these for my joint pain that doesn't respond well except to prescription antibiotic gel and pain pills. I cannot tolerate antibiotics anymore and will only use pain pills sparingly. There's so much suffering, and kicking it down the road several years is cruel.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I can't speak for all types of pain, but I researched this for my wife's specific chronic pain condition. In her case, CBD looked like it might have some benefits, but not THC. Or at least, the psychoactive side effects of THC made it so she wasn't interested in trying it.

And by the way, your previous statement that "In Utah you already can get medical products with CBD in it" is not totally accurate. As far as I could tell when I researched this a couple of months ago, CBD oil in Utah is legal only (a) if you have epilepsy (and get a prescription from a neurologist), or (b) if you are participating in a medical trial. So it's not legal for most medical purposes, including my wife's chronic pain, even with absolutely no THC in it. Which is incredibly stupid and frustrating. So while we were in Germany over the summer, where CBD oil that contains no THC is perfectly legal over the counter, we got some for her to try. Unfortunately it didn't seem to help. :-(

Thank you. They should just change the outdated law on CBD oil and expand it. They should have enough support for that. You are right, they seem to limit it to only epilepsy, which is super restrictive. It's from 2014, which is very old considering. You would think something like this could be evaluated and upgraded every couple of years at least. I would think even the most conservative of people can see the good in opening things up for the good of people in need. Give them options, and reduce the use of narcotics and other terrible prescription drugs.

 

[Gameface]

I don't like the effects of marijuana very much, but that said, I have used it at certain times in my life and have made the decision to not use it. The opposition to prop 2 describes marijuana as highly addictive. That is a flat out lie! I used marijuana before I joined the Navy. They drug test before you go to bootcamp, they test when you get to bootcamp and they do random individual testing at every command as well as a few command-wide random tests per year. I can't really even say how many drug tests I had to do while I was in the Navy, but it was a lot. And every drug test is "observed" and the observer has to say and then sign a paper affirming that "I witnessed the sample leave the body and enter the bottle." Anyway, all that to say when I decided to join the Navy I went from daily use to no use. It was not hard. I had no withdrawals. The absolute hardest part of bootcamp for me was the first 3 days when I was suffering massive headaches from going cold turkey from my caffeine addiction, because you can't have caffeine until week 5 of bootcamp. The smokers were hating life as well, no tobacco in bootcamp. Meanwhile, stopping MJ wasn't even sort of a problem. MJ is NOT addictive. Any MJ user would have a harder time giving up their smartphone than they would have giving up MJ.

Can MJ be a habit? Yes, it can. Do some people get caught up in all sorts of habitual behaviours? Yes they do. Can it cause anxiety to break a habit? Yes. But MJ is not physically addictive. It just isn't. The biggest issue I think 99% of people who stop MJ after daily use is that they have a hard time falling asleep for 2-3 days because MJ is pretty good sleep medicine.

So my feeling is that I don't care if people enjoy the effects of THC or not. If MJ is beneficial to them in other ways, or even if the effects of THC that your everyday pothead uses it for is in some way beneficial to someone, I think we need to give people that option. Colorado, Washington, places that have legalized recreational MJ, they are doing fine. Will there be pluses and minuses? Yep, but I think the pluses are much greater, and decriminalization is the right way to treat MJ no matter what.

 

[Zombie]

I don't like the effects of marijuana very much, but that said, I have used it at certain times in my life and have made the decision to not use it. The opposition to prop 2 describes marijuana as highly addictive. That is a flat out lie! I used marijuana before I joined the Navy. They drug test before you go to bootcamp, they test when you get to bootcamp and they do random individual testing at every command as well as a few command-wide random tests per year. I can't really even say how many drug tests I had to do while I was in the Navy, but it was a lot. And every drug test is "observed" and the observer has to say and then sign a paper affirming that "I witnessed the sample leave the body and enter the bottle." Anyway, all that to say when I decided to join the Navy I went from daily use to no use. It was not hard. I had no withdrawals. The absolute hardest part of bootcamp for me was the first 3 days when I was suffering massive headaches from going cold turkey from my caffeine addiction, because you can't have caffeine until week 5 of bootcamp. The smokers were hating life as well, no tobacco in bootcamp. Meanwhile, stopping MJ wasn't even sort of a problem. MJ is NOT addictive. Any MJ user would have a harder time giving up their smartphone than they would have giving up MJ.

Can MJ be a habit? Yes, it can. Do some people get caught up in all sorts of habitual behaviours? Yes they do. Can it cause anxiety to break a habit? Yes. But MJ is not physically addictive. It just isn't. The biggest issue I think 99% of people who stop MJ after daily use is that they have a hard time falling asleep for 2-3 days because MJ is pretty good sleep medicine.

So my feeling is that I don't care if people enjoy the effects of THC or not. If MJ is beneficial to them in other ways, or even if the effects of THC that your everyday pothead uses it for is in some way beneficial to someone, I think we need to give people that option. Colorado, Washington, places that have legalized recreational MJ, they are doing fine. Will there be pluses and minuses? Yep, but I think the pluses are much greater, and decriminalization is the right way to treat MJ no matter what.

This tracks with my experience as well. I smoked for the first time about 12 years ago and would smoke on the weekends at parties and such. Since then I've had a few periods of 6 months or so of nearly nightly use (never before work or anything like that) and then I'd go for months or even years before using it again. I've never had withdrawal symptoms, save for having a harder time falling asleep like you said.

Honestly it's been the same for me with alcohol use. I've never been a heavy drinker but I had a party stage for a time, and then got into craft beer, drinking a beer or two every night. Now I drink socially every few weeks and I'll have a beer with dinner every now and again. I have a feeling this is the way most people use alcohol and pot today as well.

There's no way in hell I could kick caffeine though. I suck *** before I get my first cup of coffee.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I don't like the effects of marijuana very much, but that said, I have used it at certain times in my life and have made the decision to not use it. The opposition to prop 2 describes marijuana as highly addictive. That is a flat out lie! I used marijuana before I joined the Navy. They drug test before you go to bootcamp, they test when you get to bootcamp and they do random individual testing at every command as well as a few command-wide random tests per year. I can't really even say how many drug tests I had to do while I was in the Navy, but it was a lot. And every drug test is "observed" and the observer has to say and then sign a paper affirming that "I witnessed the sample leave the body and enter the bottle." Anyway, all that to say when I decided to join the Navy I went from daily use to no use. It was not hard. I had no withdrawals. The absolute hardest part of bootcamp for me was the first 3 days when I was suffering massive headaches from going cold turkey from my caffeine addiction, because you can't have caffeine until week 5 of bootcamp. The smokers were hating life as well, no tobacco in bootcamp. Meanwhile, stopping MJ wasn't even sort of a problem. MJ is NOT addictive. Any MJ user would have a harder time giving up their smartphone than they would have giving up MJ.

Can MJ be a habit? Yes, it can. Do some people get caught up in all sorts of habitual behaviours? Yes they do. Can it cause anxiety to break a habit? Yes. But MJ is not physically addictive. It just isn't. The biggest issue I think 99% of people who stop MJ after daily use is that they have a hard time falling asleep for 2-3 days because MJ is pretty good sleep medicine.

So my feeling is that I don't care if people enjoy the effects of THC or not. If MJ is beneficial to them in other ways, or even if the effects of THC that your everyday pothead uses it for is in some way beneficial to someone, I think we need to give people that option. Colorado, Washington, places that have legalized recreational MJ, they are doing fine. Will there be pluses and minuses? Yep, but I think the pluses are much greater, and decriminalization is the right way to treat MJ no matter what.

While you and others may not have become addicted, I know of others who have.
There is a percentage of people that can, even though it is nowhere near as addictive as other substances.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive