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Put Kanter to rest...once and for all.

WHICH BIG MAN SHOULD THE JAZZ HAVE TRADED?


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Because one was getting almost that and was not happy. He is also the one who needed to move to the bench and he had already complained the year before about a similar role. Simply put his history shows that it was not going to be enough to play 30 minutes off of the bench to keep Kanter happy.

he got 27 mins a night at sporadic intervals with two players breathing down his neck. Not nearly the same thing. First it was Booker, but then Kanter clearly won that battle by December. Then Gobert was emerging with Booker still hanging around. Gobert playing more could have helped Enes as well, as they would've played more together, which would have allowed Kanter to hide more of his defensive deficiencies, which would have kept him on the court.

You can't say the sporadicness had nothing to do with it, especially when it was after a blowout vs the Mavs where Enes was having a good game, but then forced to sit the entire fourth quarter under trumped up charges of an injury, that he asked for the trade.
 
A rhythm for a rhythm player is a strange concept to you?

kanter is yet another player we've let go who has blossomed under a new circumstance. Maybe, jsut maybe, we don't do everything right.

Pivoting your entire team's strategy around guaranteeing a single player "rhythm minutes" regardless of performance is NOT doing things right. The situation is simple, Kanter saw the writing on the wall with the emergence of a superior player, and he decided to try his luck elsewhere. It is HIGHLY doubtful that OKC will actually keep Kanter since he is expecting max money, and OKC can't afford to pay that for a player of Kanter's caliber. He can enjoy being an undeserved max player on a ****ty team if he likes. Why do you want to impose that on the Jazz? Are you a Kanter fan first and foremost?
 
I wouldn't say he's blossomed either. He is getting more touches so he's getting bigger #'s. But he still is the same player. He still doesn't play defense. He still gives up as much or more than he gets.

his usg% has dropped from 24 to 22, yet he is scoring, assisting, and rebounding more. He has blossomed. He is almost 18 pts, 11 rebs, and 1.4 ast per game on nearly 57% shooting.

OKC will be able to hide his defense with Durant and Ibaka, much like we could've with Gobert and no Trey.

Despite the ungodly #'s they are allowing, they are scoring even more. They have won just as much as we have since the trade, where his role has been increased.
 
Pivoting your entire team's strategy around guaranteeing a single player "rhythm minutes" regardless of performance is NOT doing things right. The situation is simple, Kanter saw the writing on the wall with the emergence of a superior player, and he decided to try his luck elsewhere. It is HIGHLY doubtful that OKC will actually keep Kanter since he is expecting max money, and OKC can't afford to pay that for a player of Kanter's caliber. He can enjoy being an undeserved max player on a ****ty team if he likes. Why do you want to impose that on the Jazz? Are you a Kanter fan first and foremost?

I am a Jazz fan first and foremost. I take offense to that comment.

You are being too extreme. We didn't need to make the entire team's strategy about Enes to satisfy him. We just needed to give him a constant, like we did with all of our other players weither deserved or not. 23 mins in rhythm is much better than 27 sporadically.

30 for the three was proposed by Dennis Lindsey, and Quin also mentioned it BTW, but it was never executed.
 
I am a Jazz fan first and foremost. I take offense to that comment.

You are being too extreme. We didn't need to make the entire team's strategy about Enes to satisfy him. We just needed to give him a constant, like we did with all of our other players weither deserved or not. 23 mins in rhythm is much better than 27 sporadically.

Let's say you're right, what would be the point? Favors and Gobert are better players, and Kanter would have been an astronomically expensive 3rd big on an untradeable contract. The Jazz' only mistake was not to shop him earlier in order to get more in return (possibly, I don't know how they handled the situation).
 
Let's say you're right, what would be the point? Favors and Gobert are better players, and Kanter would have been an astronomically expensive 3rd big on an untradeable contract. The Jazz' only mistake was not to shop him earlier in order to get more in return (possibly, I don't know how they handled the situation).

the point is, we COULD have afforded him. With the new cap, Gobert's extension date in relevance to the cap, and how undesirable of a free agent market we are. Giving away our talent, which is essentially what we did, is not a good strategy. We didn't even get Mitch Mcgary in return. Doesn't matter how good our team is with Gobert playing more, that is irellevant, since Gobert could have played more with Kanter in a trio. We have the Stampede now, which will have our system, that we could have pulled players from in case of injuries to our three bigs. Talent matters. Favors, Gobert, and Kanter all have much more talent than the Bookers of this world.

Anyways, when they are all playing the same, no one is a third big. Whoever doesn't start is a 6th man of the year canidate. Not a bad consolation prize.
 
his usg% has dropped from 24 to 22, yet he is scoring, assisting, and rebounding more. He has blossomed. He is almost 18 pts, 11 rebs, and 1.4 ast per game on nearly 57% shooting.

OKC will be able to hide his defense with Durant and Ibaka, much like we could've with Gobert and no Trey.

Despite the ungodly #'s they are allowing, they are scoring even more. They have won just as much as we have since the trade, where his role has been increased.

Hiding players on defense is a myth. Any coach worth his salt will exploit Kanter. Pop is a good example, looked what the Spurs just did to them. Bloody murdered them.
 
it's all water under the bridge now. There is no undoing the past. I just take exception to this mentality that we should be congratulating ourselves for a circumstance that could have been avoided. We are better defensively with Gobert playing more, but we could have been dominant on both ends with that trio of bigs playing more. That's even better! Realize mistakes for what they are so we don't repeat them.
 
You can't say the sporadicness had nothing to do with it, especially when it was after a blowout vs the Mavs where Enes was having a good game, but then forced to sit the entire fourth quarter under trumped up charges of an injury, that he asked for the trade.

They somehow forced him to ask for a trade to justify themselves with the fans and it worked.

Being a fan it does not mean that you have to pander to all the management decisions.
 
Hiding players on defense is a myth. Any coach worth his salt will exploit Kanter. Pop is a good example, looked what the Spurs just did to them. Bloody murdered them.

Murdered without Durant and Ibaka. I believe we lost to LA after the deadline. **** happens in the NBA.

James Harden was a horrible defender last year, but the Rockets were still a great team. Kyle Korver is nothing special defensively, yet he is essential to the Hawks being the 2nd best team in the league. so many other examples.

Also, the duo of Kanter and Westbrook has won something like 65% of their games since the trade without Durant, and now without Ibaka.
 
Murdered without Durant and Ibaka. I believe we lost to LA after the deadline. **** happens in the NBA.

James Harden was a horrible defender last year, but the Rockets were still a great team. Kyle Korver is nothing special defensively, yet he is essential to the Hawks being the 2nd best team in the league. so many other examples.

Also, the duo of Kanter and Westbrook has won something like 65% of their games since the trade without Durant, and now without Ibaka.

That's because Kanter is over achieving. He's probably a better player than he showed on the Jazz, but he won't keep up a TS% of 60, that is borderline superstar. If you argue that point I will call you out big time the first slump he has.
 
That's because Kanter is over achieving. He's probably a better player than he showed on the Jazz, but he won't keep up a TS% of 60, that is borderline superstar. If you argue that point I will call you out big time the first slump he has.

he may not continue it, but he will continue to be better than he was with us, and he will only get better. He is only 22.
 
his usg% has dropped from 24 to 22, yet he is scoring, assisting, and rebounding more. He has blossomed. He is almost 18 pts, 11 rebs, and 1.4 ast per game on nearly 57% shooting.

OKC will be able to hide his defense with Durant and Ibaka, much like we could've with Gobert and no Trey.

Despite the ungodly #'s they are allowing, they are scoring even more. They have won just as much as we have since the trade, where his role has been increased.

Another way to say that is that he threw his baby fit, got what he wanted, so he chooses to play to the level he is capable of. With us he had direct competition and when just being The Kanter wasn't enough to win PT over the other he played crappy (for example zero passing...unless your conspiracy brain is telling you that the Millers brainwashed him into choosing not to pass), and then demanded a trade when his crappy play pouting ******** didn't get him what he wanted. I wish him lots of success in his career. Nothing against him personally. I just think he is a punk ***** ball player. No one with integrity would choose when and how they play. They would just do their best and not cry about it.
 
it's all water under the bridge now. There is no undoing the past. I just take exception to this mentality that we should be congratulating ourselves for a circumstance that could have been avoided. We are better defensively with Gobert playing more, but we could have been dominant on both ends with that trio of bigs playing more. That's even better! Realize mistakes for what they are so we don't repeat them.

I disagree. For the caliber of the 3 there was no way to keep them all happy (minutes and pay) that doesn't hamtring one or make the big rotation paper thin.


They somehow forced him to ask for a trade to justify themselves with the fans and it worked.
Being a fan it does not mean that you have to pander to all the management decisions.

Hahaha, this is such a crock. Kanter had plenty of chances to pass in Utah. If he didn't then he was holding back and that is reason enough for me to want him gone.

Kanter's stated reasons for leaving were not even the case this year as things had changed. This was not a master plan to sabotage Kanter or justify trading him.

Give me a break.
 
OKC will be able to hide his defense with Durant and Ibaka, much like we could've with Gobert and no Trey.

I don't buy that you can hide a big as abysmal as Kanter on defense. Maybe if he was a 2 or 3, but a 4 or 5? Nah. Smart teams will exploit the hell out of that.

In any case, we already have all the indisputable evidence we need to show that lineups with Favors/Gobert were substantially better than lineups with Favors/Kanter and Kanter/Gobert.

Since the all-star break, the frontcourt has been dominant. It is the reason the Jazz have been as successful as they were, and the recent string of losses has been due to a combination of injuries and having the worst backcourt in the NBA. Even given the incoming cap increase, why commit to Kanter longterm as a 3rd big? The Jazz would be absolutely correct to focus those resources instead on improving the backcourt and keeping Gobert (who will almost certainly get the max which, under the new cap, will be substantially more than the current max).
 
This will not put anything to rest, only further a debate that will seemingly never end. There are people who can't accept that we got a mediocre return for a #3 draft pick (understandably so), but looking at it from that perspective alone does not take the many other factors that were at play into consideration.

The only argument that I can see is not signing Booker, but going into the season, even the most optimistic of projections couldn't have foreseen Gobert developing & performing as well as he has this season. Sure there were a few precursors based on his #s last year, but to assume that Gobert would progress into the player that he has been this year would have been unfounded. Theoretically, not signing Booker would have allowed the team to instead carry a bottom of the bench 4th big who wouldn't require any playing time (poor Jeremy Evans), thus allowing the team to play Favors, Kanter, & Gobert each 30+ minutes per game (which may or may not have kept all 3 content).

But heading into the off-season, the Jazz likely assumed they had a starting front court (of the future) consisting of a defensive oriented PF (Favors) & an offensive oriented C (Kanter) with a raw defensive oriented C (Gobert), who had the potential to possibily become a starting caliber player down the road (not this year), so they (understandably) decided to sign a 4th big, with room for growth, who could provide some offense & energy off the bench, as well as solidify a formidable big man rotation to go along with Burke (who was expected to progress rather than regress as he has) backed up by Exum (who, while likely not expected to contribute significantly, appeared capable of handling the back up duties) at PG, & Burks (who I would imagine was expected to take a significant step forward) & Hayward, backed up by Hood (although only a rookie, one who was expected to produce much as he has been- only for an entire year) on the wing.

The FO decided to put a young but talented roster in a position to develop, while still having the opportunity to be competitive had everything gone right (which it clearly didn't, mainly due to injuries & Burke far underperforming his projections). The FO recognized this, so it adapted on the fly (by inserting Exum into the starting rotation & shifting the focus of the season firmly on that of development), much as it did with the way it handled the Kanter situation.

As is with all things in life, you must adapt on the fly. I guarantee that what has unfolded this season is nowhere near what the FO had originally anticipated. Once Gobert emerged as he has, they could have traded Booker to allow for the 3 bigs to get their 30+ minutes, but at that point, it was fairly obvious that Favors & Kanter were not an ideal match, Kanter was unhappy & unlikely to return beyond next year (especially on a reasonable contract), & that Gobert was deserving of a starting role, so the FO elected to go with a future front court that projected to be elite defensively & at least acceptable offensively rather than one that had been mediocre in both regards up to that point.

I agree that Kanter (& Favors to some degree) were handled inadequately by Corbin, but that is not something that a professional should allow to carry over into the next season (& what was essentially a fresh start). The FO made the right decision by adapting to the situation (something that I think has been an issue in the past). Hindsight is 20/20; if only Miss Cleo was our GM, then maybe we would have known exactly how the season was going to play out & we could have gotten full value for Kanter. Personally, I'll take the FO we have & gladly watch as we continue to head in the right direction, even if it means that not every single situation is handled with complete efficiency & that 100% value isn't extracted from every single asset (which has yet to be done by any FO in the history of any sport).
 
I actually did see Gobert as developing last offseason and said so. Saw the Booker signing as a problem from the word go.
 
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