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"Quin Snyder, may I introduce you to Miye Oni? He is on your roster and available to play."

homeytennis said:
It ain't gonna matter if our 8 guys can't walk by the end of the season.
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My hell your an idiot!!! The jazz have played 5 games. Quin isn’t going to over use his main guys in the first few weeks. The young guys will get their shot. My guess is he wants then to watch and get in their practice time, and get off to a good start first. This happens every year. The guys that earn play time will get on the court eventually.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
My hell your an idiot!!! The jazz have played 5 games. Quin isn’t going to over use his main guys in the first few weeks. The young guys will get their shot. My guess is he wants then to watch and get in their practice time, and get off to a good start first. This happens every year. The guys that earn play time will get on the court eventually.
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You mean like the guy that scored 15 points in 14 minutes vs the Suns in preseason and missed one shot and was +9 during that time in a win?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Someone should be getting Niangs minutes... Oni Shaq Morgan... I don’t think he can do what he needs to in the short stints... he gets in and forces shots realizing he’s on the bench in 2 minutes and that is where his value comes from. Shaq, Oni, or Morgan can be positive without taking a shot. JC Joe and Mike or DM will carry the bench unit shots... put a defender in that might get a steal or two or inject some energy into the game.
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His usage is less than 9% and he's taken 6 shots in 5 games. Not what I would call forcing things. I think Oni/Shaq/Morgan should get a chance and would like to see it for Oni/Morgan in particular for their development. But anyone acting like these 3 minute stints is costing the Jazz is crazy. It's not Niang's doing, but the Jazz are +14 in his 29 minutes. The decision to play Niang instead isn't killing the Jazz.

Also, I think Niang does provide value without shooting a shot. He's a shooter who provides spacing whether he's making his shots or taking none of them at all. Shaq, Oni, and Morgan all have next to zero reputation as a shooter. They have the same potential to have zero impact and their offense can be negative just as Niang's defense can be negative.

The primary lineup that Niang is playing in is Conley+Clarkson+Ingles+Niang+Gobert and plays against opposing bench units. I think it makes all the sense in the world to put a shooter in that lineup to surround those 4. More sense than it does to put in a defensive guard or Morgan TBH. Until it stops working, I don't really see a huge rush in changing it.

That lineup is also succeeding for the reasons you wouldn't think. It's not scoring well, but nobody is scoring against it. In any case, that 5th guy in the lineup probably just needs to stay out of the way.
 
KqWIN said:
His usage is less than 9% and he's taken 6 shots in 5 games. Not what I would call forcing things. I think Oni/Shaq/Morgan should get a chance and would like to see it for Oni/Morgan in particular for their development. But anyone acting like these 3 minute stints is costing the Jazz is crazy. It's not Niang's doing, but the Jazz are +14 in his 29 minutes. The decision to play Niang instead isn't killing the Jazz.

Also, I think Niang does provide value without shooting a shot. He's a shooter who provides spacing whether he's making his shots or taking none of them at all. Shaq, Oni, and Morgan all have next to zero reputation as a shooter. They have the same potential to have zero impact and their offense can be negative just as Niang's defense can be negative.

The primary lineup that Niang is playing in is Conley+Clarkson+Ingles+Niang+Gobert and plays against opposing bench units. I think it makes all the sense in the world to put a shooter in that lineup to surround those 4. More sense than it does to put in a defensive guard or Morgan TBH. Until it stops working, I don't really see a huge rush in changing it.

That lineup is also succeeding for the reasons you wouldn't think. It's not scoring well, but nobody is scoring against it. In any case, that 5th guy in the lineup probably just needs to stay out of the way.
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The shots thing is an eye test thing. He’s forced a couple threes in transition and took a Dirk one legged fade away last game... might have been the Suns game. Some of his shots have come in the flow of the offense and he’s missed them all. He also had his struggles in the bubble pre playoff. I think unless you give him 15-20 minutes he might not find his rhythm . Spacing is nice but his defense will always be a negative or at best average. Those units are good defensively because of Rudy... he’s a one man top ten defense.

Adding the type of disruptive defenders would make that unit even better and give us an opportunity to get some easy baskets in transition.

The real cost of playing Niang is we still don’t have enough good perimeter defenders... we have two on the bench that could be help meet that need and one that likely won’t sacrifice spacing. 10 development minutes a night might prep them for a bigger role when we need to change the rotation. We know what we have in Niang. We need to find out if the other guys can give us something.

Since Niang is 0 for the season we have reason to put one of them in... what message does it tell the guys waiting for an opportunity if you keep playing the shooter who can’t shoot (right now at least) and who is also a liability on defense... like how bad does he have to be and for how long before we go another route.

Imagine waiting for a promotion and not getting it while the guy in front of you is not performing. Niang is the sales guy who isn’t closing deals right now and we have a couple hungry interns that want a shot... it’s time.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The shots thing is an eye test thing. He’s forced a couple threes in transition and took a Dirk one legged fade away last game... might have been the Suns game. Some of his shots have come in the flow of the offense and he’s missed them all. He also had his struggles in the bubble pre playoff. I think unless you give him 15-20 minutes he might not find his rhythm . Spacing is nice but his defense will always be a negative or at best average. Those units are good defensively because of Rudy... he’s a one man top ten defense.

Adding the type of disruptive defenders would make that unit even better and give us an opportunity to get some easy baskets in transition.

The real cost of playing Niang is we still don’t have enough good perimeter defenders... we have two on the bench that could be help meet that need and one that likely won’t sacrifice spacing. 10 development minutes a night might prep them for a bigger role when we need to change the rotation. We know what we have in Niang. We need to find out if the other guys can give us something.

Since Niang is 0 for the season we have reason to put one of them in... what message does it tell the guys waiting for an opportunity if you keep playing the shooter who can’t shoot (right now at least) and who is also a liability on defense... like how bad does he have to be and for how long before we go another route.

Imagine waiting for a promotion and not getting it while the guy in front of you is not performing. Niang is the sales guy who isn’t closing deals right now and we have a couple hungry interns that want a shot... it’s time.
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I don't think it really makes sense to have a defensive guard in that unit. You're sliding up Ingles or Clarkson to have to guard a bigger guy. I don't think Niang is amazing or anything, but if you were to ask me what type of player should compliment those 4...it's very obvious to me that you would want a stretch 4 there. Just a bigger body who stands in the corner and knocks down 3's. That's what Niang is. If his 6 shots are forced, his teammates aren't finding him for looks or the defense is taking it away...which is good because it provides spacing. I see a much better argument for Morgan than Oni or Shaq simply because he's a bigger body and is might even be a better shooter than Oni or Morgan. Quite frankly, Favors at the 4 is probably the best option and I think he provides more defense than a perimeter guy.

It should be matchup dependent, of course, but if I'm assessing the fit with those 4 and the body of work of these 4 players...Niang is an obvious pick to me. I believe in his shooting and 6 shots aren't enough to change that. If Oni or Harrison played 29 minutes of bad defense I wouldn't really question that their defense. Now, I could see the argument for getting the other guys for the sake of getting them PT....but if we're talking doing our best on a night to night basis, Niang would be my choice.

In the end, it's not a huge deal anyways. So if you want to give the other guys these three minute stints, go for it. But people seem to be acting like Niang is burning a whole in our wallet. We're winning those minutes easily. Once Jeff Green was gone, Niang handled this exact role fine as well. That's why I have belief in Niang. If I were to let 6 shots and 29 minutes where the team is +14 change that what would that say about my opinion in the first place? I haven't seen enough, but if you thought that someone else should have gotten the time to begin with I can see how you'd be ancy.

Side note, but I also understand why Quin is playing so few guys. It's because the first 8 are all good players who demand and deserve a lot of minutes. There are only so many minutes that can go around and no one is getting pushed to play a lot of minutes. Maybe you bench Bogey a few more minutes because he's playing awful, but those minutes should go to Clarkson or Ingles instead. There's not going to be a lot of time for other players when you have 8 guys that would start or play 25+ minutes for most teams. It is what is. There will be opportunities down the road, I'm sure of it.
 
Agent#00 said:
Look at what the Lakers are doing. Talen Horton Tucker is playing 11 minutes and he is like the 11th guy off the bench. They are trying out all their resources because it's early season anyways.
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THT has only gotten time when guys are out or there's garbage time. We're not going to have every player healthy and available every game of the season. When that happens, someone else will get a chance.
 
Jingled said:
I don't see why people are so surprised that Oni isn't getting minutes. I've been saying since pre-season that the only time he'll see the floor is in blowouts or if we have injuries. The rotation is set, and he's like our 11th man. How many teams use an 11 man rotation? This isn't unique to Quin, almost all teams use a 9 man rotation and the rest of the roster rides the pine.
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You’re right. This is all really predictable. Including the preseason hype of Oni fomented by the FO itself. Tasty batch of predictability.
 
KqWIN said:
I don't think it really makes sense to have a defensive guard in that unit. You're sliding up Ingles or Clarkson to have to guard a bigger guy. I don't think Niang is amazing or anything, but if you were to ask me what type of player should compliment those 4...it's very obvious to me that you would want a stretch 4 there. Just a bigger body who stands in the corner and knocks down 3's. That's what Niang is. If his 6 shots are forced, his teammates aren't finding him for looks or the defense is taking it away...which is good because it provides spacing. I see a much better argument for Morgan than Oni or Shaq simply because he's a bigger body and is might even be a better shooter than Oni or Morgan. Quite frankly, Favors at the 4 is probably the best option and I think he provides more defense than a perimeter guy.

It should be matchup dependent, of course, but if I'm assessing the fit with those 4 and the body of work of these 4 players...Niang is an obvious pick to me. I believe in his shooting and 6 shots aren't enough to change that. If Oni or Harrison played 29 minutes of bad defense I wouldn't really question that their defense. Now, I could see the argument for getting the other guys for the sake of getting them PT....but if we're talking doing our best on a night to night basis, Niang would be my choice.

In the end, it's not a huge deal anyways. So if you want to give the other guys these three minute stints, go for it. But people seem to be acting like Niang is burning a whole in our wallet. We're winning those minutes easily. Once Jeff Green was gone, Niang handled this exact role fine as well. That's why I have belief in Niang. If I were to let 6 shots and 29 minutes where the team is +14 change that what would that say about my opinion in the first place? I haven't seen enough, but if you thought that someone else should have gotten the time to begin with I can see how you'd be ancy.

Side note, but I also understand why Quin is playing so few guys. It's because the first 8 are all good players who demand and deserve a lot of minutes. There are only so many minutes that can go around and no one is getting pushed to play a lot of minutes. Maybe you bench Bogey a few more minutes because he's playing awful, but those minutes should go to Clarkson or Ingles instead. There's not going to be a lot of time for other players when you have 8 guys that would start or play 25+ minutes for most teams. It is what is. There will be opportunities down the road, I'm sure of it.
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I don't think there is a meaningful size difference between Oni or Shaq and Niang. They can guard the wing or a big better than Niang and also cause a little havoc imo. I also don't think you sacrifice spacing with Oni over Niang... especially with Georges now O for 6 games from 3. Oni has a quicker release and that might cause guys to hug him closer if he's able to prove to be a 35-40% 3 point shooter.

Ultimately it doesn't matter a lot. Niang is a fine end of rotation player. I think the upside play is to work another guy in though because those guys need any reps they can get. Even if it is scraps. This thread is about Oni getting some PT and the easiest place to get that is with Niang's minutes. Based on how he is shooting the only reason he is getting those minutes is because of seniority.

I'm fine if you disagree... its completely reasonable so no need for a long response.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Oni played... got cooked. Guess he isn’t our best perimeter defender.
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“What did you expect? He played in the G League last year. Lol the expectations you have.”

-People who participated in justifying lack of perimeter D personnel moves by hyping Oni as our defensive stopper.
 
Developing players is a big reason why Quin got the job. Plus... the heroine... Its very odd that he doesn't give them blow.

Teams that develop youth get rewarded. Just look at Miami in 2019 who let 2 rookies develop (one undrafted) and ultimately they now make up a big part of the core of the Eastern conf champions.

Play the guys if only for a few energy minutes.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Developing players is a big reason why Quin got the job. Plus... the heroine... Its very odd that he doesn't give them blow.

Teams that develop youth get rewarded. Just look at Miami in 2019 who let 2 rookies develop (one undrafted) and ultimately they now make up a big part of the core of the Eastern conf champions.

Play the guys if only for a few energy minutes.
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I got thrashed for even suggesting this on Facebook groups. Probably blocked by a dozen people for daring to question the GENIUS of Quin Snyder. “So happy we don’t need the actual coach anymore...”


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app
 
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