Quotes from around the league on Korver's Privileged article

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by JazzAvenues, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. JazzAvenues

    JazzAvenues Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    Aug 26, 2014
    I thought Korver's article was amazing. Here are some quotes from around the league on the issues he addressed. There were a lot of hateful quotes I did not include, but there were an impressive amount of well thought out, well-considered quotes.

    Clippers- This resonates with me. A few weeks ago I was walking through the city with my boss and a black guy was yelling to a friend across the road. My boss pulled me aside a later said he wasn’t sure what he would do so he just wanted to be safe. Like you would be in danger in the middle of Manhattan on a work day. It’s kinda been on my mind ever since, especially as my son is half black and I know that he’s going to face this stuff when he grows up.

    Bulls- I cant tell you how many times people who say racism is bad have made totally racist jokes or comments under the guise that just us white folk are around.

    Warriors- I thought this is the best part really... I actually understand when people say "I'm so sick of this discussion" and feeling like the topic has been beat to death. But even that carries privilege. I can sympathise with you being tired of the convo, but I can also point out that "lucky you, at any moment you can opt out of even having the convo - and turn your mind to other things when you are tired of talking about it."

    As a disadvantaged minority, you can't opt out. You can and will be reminded at any given moment about your place in things. Well put by Korver.

    Unk- Yeah the whole thing had so many great great sentiments. As a black person I even appreciated that he went over what his initial reactions were and why it was problematic. The part you cited reminds me of that John Stewart bit, something along the lines of “so sorry you’re tired of talking about race? Well try having to live through racism every single day, black and brown people are tired of living it”

    Celtics- Any time race gets brought up on /r/nba I make sure to hammer this home. It's not the ones that yell racial slurs at me that I'm worried about, it's the ones who don't.

    Cavs- I ****ing love this dude.

    Clippers- My favorite part was his discussion of guilt and responsibility, saying that no, I am not guilty of causing this racial divide, but yes I have some level of responsibility to do what I can to address it

    Suns- As a straight black male, I am definitely partially responsible for fixing homophobia in my community. Could you explain why you feel differently?

    Kings- Well one time he railed on Philly for building a statue of the fictional character Rocky while not building statues of the many famous black athletes from there.

    Basically that the people are so racist that they will go out of their way to build a statue of that scrappy white fictional character instead of a real black champion. They're not saying the n-word, but you know who they prefer.

    The last minute of this bit on racist movies is kind of along the line of subtle racism. He basically says you don't see that white racist caricature characters that are in the movies. Racism is a lot more subtl

    Blazers- Not necessarily racist but it downplays people of colors issues. When we make something about race and a white person tells us it's not about race it's infuriating because white people can't see our perspective that many things you may not see as racial are indeed racial. Of course there are the extremes where people are looking to be offended but that's besides the point

    Blazers- I do see that yeah, to be honest I guess the only way is to listen to them in good faith and try to find where people are really coming from. I've had these interactions with white people who have doubted/downplayed my experiences and just trying to have a conversation in good faith is the best way. It's all about making an informed opinion after understanding their perspective I guess

    Nuggets- As a black woman, I think this is one of the best ways to describe privilege that I've ever been able to put into words. There's just been this frustrating disconnect when white people complain about "The Race Card" or "Why does it always have to be about race?"

    The tension - the privilege - comes with that choice to opt in. I can't opt in or opt out. The most apparent facet of my identity is the first thing people see. Talking about it and thinking about it, is not and has never been optional or superfluous to me. It's who I am, all day, every day.

    That being said, I wish white people would be more comfortable talking about race. Some people think its somehow too political or taboo, but many other, well-meaning people think its offensive to even bring it up. Don't be! It's something POC talk and think about all the time, and having an honest conversation about it is a sigh of relief. Just remember to listen.

    Bulls- White dude here. I had a really frank conversation with one of my black friends that this made me think of. What we sort of concluded was that people learn so much through personal experience. White people have such a hard time imagining racism as people of color describe it because we never experience it.

    He said that he's had conversations with white friends where they just lecture him about what's really going on when he perceives racism and his reply is a simple: "You think you know more about my life experiences than I do?"

    Unk- This is the purest distillation of the privilege. It's the most obvious thing but also the thing that eludes so many people (who are also motivated not to grasp it for any number of ****** reasons).

    Super ****ing awesome by Korver. Got me right in the feels. Holy ****.

    Unk- The article was great, but this, this he really nailed.

    People don't make things 'about race', they make it about their lives and the issues they face, and it just so happens that they only face many of those issues because of their race. You can only frame it as 'just about race' if it isn't about you.

    Heat- That is the maybe the best, most necessary Players Trubune article I have ever read, and that's high praise coming from me. Korver is uniquely positioned to speak to this issue and he deserves all the praise in the world for doing this. He summed up how I feel as a white man in America and has me thinking about aspects of this issue that I've undersold in my own inner dialogue, which, like his own, wants to he informed and impactful on the issues of racism in America. Bravo, Kyle.

    Cavs- Huge respect for this. He gets it, and he's able to admit he was wrong. We should all learn from this

    Clippers- It's difficult to admit to yourself when you've made a mistake like that. It is vastly more difficult to admit it in such a public way. I especially loved his distinction between guilt and responsibility for racial injustice because I think that's something people often miss

    Wizards- This is some of the best insight into racism I've ever read.

    Bucks- This is beautiful

    Knicks- What a read. Korver has always been an outstanding player and an inspirational off-the-court guy and I'm so glad that he wrote this. As an Asian, I've noticed that I even get some leeway and I believe that it's because my skin isn't black and there's the perception that Asians don't get in trouble, etc.

    It honestly hurts to see friends who are "dark" always have to be afraid when the police walk/drive past them.

    I'm afraid this will get negative responses from those who are ignorant, but this is definitely something that all white people should think about. From Thabo to Sterling Brown to others who have been on the receiving end of racial attacks, I hope that more players are outspoken about this issue.

    EDIT: The only way we can change racial inequality is through white people, who hold the most power in our nation. And I'm not saying this as a slight to any other race. We need to be aware as light-skin people (even Asians) and to know that there are changes that need to be made proactively. If America were to be great, it's through others speaking out and making a difference in the world that we'll establish for the following generations.

    Magic- kyle u a real one for this

    Raptors- The best part about this is that he didn’t have to write this. The fact that he went out of his way to do so speaks volumes for what Korver stands for. Full respect.

    Raptors- I bet it is frustrating being a white player knowing that lots of white racists want to make you a symbol for their ****** ideas.

    Spurs- Korver put a stop to that **** real quick +10000

    Celtics- Great insight by Korver. Hope this article attracts more attention across the NBA and the community in general.

    Whole lot of yikes in his immediate reaction to what happened to thabo but it's good that he understands and learned from that. I never knew a single white person growing up, there were maybe a few living within miles of me, so meeting a lot of them in the past three years and hearing them describe and react to things with the sort of reflex Kyle describes here was super jarring, like damn how can you really think like that? Hopefully more people can learn and grow the way Kyle has, this seems very genuine on his part.

    Heat- I love this article and I just want to add that white people shouldn't be the only one trying to get rid of racism. This should apply to all colors.

    As an asian person, I feel like my parents(immigrants) are so racist and its disgusting. Whenever I try to tell them don't say that about black people, they just laugh it off and say "but the news always show them doing this and that." I know a lot of children go through this with their parents and I hope we learn from them and fix this problem.

    Spurs- Complete opposite for me bro. I grew up in the middle of butt**** nowhere midwest with not a minority in sight. Just white people and corn for miles. Then I left for the military and lived all over the world and made friends from all over the world. It's good to see Korver getting some perspective and hopefully it helps more people see it.

    Unk- The reason he can think like that is because he would be 100% right...if Thabo was white. So using his own experiences and understanding, there MUST HAVE been something Thabo did wrong, or it wouldn't have happened. And again, he would be right about that if Thabo was white. But he's not white, so Korver can't use his own experiences to judge the situation, because his experience is entirely different.

    People like to act like white people are evil because they assume the black person did something wrong, but really they are just human, and police officers would not be arresting someone for doing nothing wrong. It's just that white people don't have the experience of being black, so it's much harder to understand and empathize with. If a cop shot a white guy, white people would assume he did something wrong. It's the same with a black guy. It's not racist to think that. It's just a lack of understanding of other's situation, which is a hard thing to achieve.

    Celttics- All you have to do is read the replies to this thread to partially understand why articles like this in 2019 are still relevant.

    Lakers- Do yourselves a favor and don't sort by controversial

    Cavs- Fading into the crowd would be a privilege if people liked the crowd "(white America"). But they don't. Most educated, liberal white people go explicitly out of their way to declare they are not in the crowd, that they are not part of the problem of white Americans that aren't woke.

    If you are a white public figure and don't post things like this ("I will shut up and listen. I am privileged. Economic problems are mainly racial problems") one might assume in 2019 that you do side with the crowd, and that you might secretly be a racist Trump supporter, so Kyle and others make damn sure no one confuses them for one of the bad whites.

    Just an interesting dynamic.

    Unk- basketball players/coaches keep getting lots of social issues right. ahead of the curve. kyle korver, lebron, melo, steph, pop and kerr and many more. because they actually interact and understand each other.

    Nets- He has a whole section on how it's not about guilt, but about responsibility. He's not asking himself, you, or anyone else to feel guilt. He didn't ask for the system to exist as it does, but he gets to take advantage of it every single day while it works against other people. He feels a moral responsibility to use the advantages he's gained from the system to help those the system hurts. No shame required, just empathy.

    Unk- It boggles my mind how someone can read this article and completely miss his point like this.

    Privilege is not "determined" it has already been given to people based off of tons of different factors. Privilege is just the word we use to describe the experiences they have had that differ from someone without that "privilege". If you grew up with privilege, you already have it wooo! No one is asking you to give it up, just to be aware of its existence.

    Privilege is not a bad thing, equality is the fight for everyone to be "privileged" it's the ideal. And privilege does not determine the importance of your voice, if that's what you took from this article you really should read it again.

    Kyle is commenting on the fact that his privilege made him ignorant of the structural and social racism his teammates and colleagues faced. This privilege made his form opinions of events and people because he was basing their actions on his own. His lack of exposure to the invisible, insidious side of racism made him uninformed, this article is him talking about that realization.

    Much like Kyle states at the end, the most important thing for people with privilege is to listen. If your constantly being told to not talk because of your skin color it might be because you're refusing to listen.

    Pistons- I think you're misinterpreting what Korver's use of "responsibility" means here. It seems like you're picturing it as some sort of "you broke it, you bought it" mentality when it's more like how Batman has a sense of responsibility to Gotham? Did Batman cause all the crime in Gotham? No, but he has a sense of responsibility to make it better. A sense of responsibility for your fellow human is a moral stance, a positive idea that helps strengthen communities. A sense of guilt is isolating and almost always fruitless.

    Warriors- Kyle Korver is the ****ing man

    Thunder- ****ing spot on, just perfect.

    Brilliant read.

    Mavs- As a german citizen, this hit me the most:

    "As white people, are we guilty for the sins of our forefathers? No, I don’t think so.

    But are we responsible for them? Yes, I believe we are."

    This was taught to us in school about our country's past. Great to see this being brought up by Kyle, too. Avoiding responsibility makes you a part of the problem. It's as simple as that.

    Unk- If you're reaction to this is "Wow I'm impressed with Kyle Korver for having the courage to write this," consider shifting your reaction to "Wow I'm impressed with every black basketball player for having the courage to play the game in spite of being part of a system that's stacked against them"

    Hawks- I all of a sudden wanna buy a Kyle Korver jersey...

    Bucks- Stuff like this is why I will always believe the NBA is far and away the best league in the world

    Hawks- This is how you use your privilege for the betterment of others.

    Knicks- I never liked this guy, because all he did was drain 3s while I was cheering for the other team, but man this is an awesome and powerful piece, and my opinion of him is completely changed.

    Jnk- When people tell professional athletes to stick to sports, I SORT OF get the desire to have an uncontroversial part of your life, but this article is the best sort of counter argument to that stance. Many articles have been written about these topics before. These things have all been said. But Kyle Korver has a platform that random journalists, authors, and academics will never have, and he can use it to reach people who would never read some Washington post op ed about redlining. Much respect to him for putting himself out there for the right reasons.

    Pistons- Honestly if just half of white people even reached half of this understanding this country would be a fundamentally different place.

    Knicks- Shoutout to this dude. I think it would be beneficial for a lot of Jazz fans and other white fans who are prone to ****ing up and saying stupid **** to players at games to hear this kind of stuff from their favorite players (who can often be the white guy). It's a common trope for the token white dude on each team to be the "fan favorite" and it's always pretty obvious why that's the case. More guys like Korver, Redick, Novak, Scal (back in the day anyway) need to be the ones speaking out against racism. Don't put the onus on black players only for responses of fans to be that of victim blaming and whataboutisms and "it's not us." We as fans have to call out other fans for being trash, and when we defend fans or give them the benefit of the doubt for being racist *****eads, we all lose. Players don't make this crap up (usually) and it's clear they deal with it all of the time.

    Cavs- Kyle is now invited to the bbq

    Rockets- TBH until i read Korver's explanation about white privilege, I had my difficulty understanding it(from my own perspective and personal experience) but he really made it clear and i applaud him for it

    Lakers- I loved this piece but it really highlights what people have color have been saying for so long. While people won’t understand what we really go through until another white person explains it to them. I see lots of people in here talking about having their eyes open but black people have been pleading for others to understand this concept since the 1700’s.
    Stars Fan, Hearsky, Hekate and 6 others like this.

  2. Stoked

    Stoked Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

    Dec 13, 2011
    I’ll chime in. Because F it. When people stop talking the fight is lost.

    I see a massive level of assumption in here. And it’s very disappointing.

    But we can’t just stop talking. And unfortunately I don’t think this will ever be “solved”. This will be an issue in a 100 years, 200, 300...
    Wes Mantooth and LogGrad98 like this.
  3. firegirl

    firegirl Well-Known Member

    Mar 3, 2017
    Thanks for putting this together Jazz Avenues. You're the main reason I even participate in this forum. I can tell you're a good soul.
    JazzAvenues likes this.
  4. Joncolton

    Joncolton Active Member

    Jan 11, 2015
    I don't post as often on here as I read the comments, but good stuff! Way to be - Jazz fanz.
    colton and JazzAvenues like this.
  5. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

    Jul 7, 2010
    I read somewhere that with increasing rates of marrying between "races" it will take between 10 and 15 generations to make most of the world homogenous. Given that a generation is generally accepted to be about 20 years, we are a minimum of 200 years from this issue fading out on it's own.
    Ellis269 and JazzAvenues like this.
  6. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

    Jul 7, 2010
    It's probably just me, but I'm bugged by the term "woke" (as I am by the term "swole"). What's wrong with enlightened, or informed?
    tonstermits likes this.
  7. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    Nov 4, 2010
    Those terms are too "white"

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
    LogGrad98 likes this.
  8. Gobzilla

    Gobzilla Well-Known Member

    Jul 9, 2014
    Not sure where you read that, but, inter-racial marriages are not common at all. As a half middle eastern, I know from experience. I live in a very white predominant area, and finding a date is probably the hardest thing for me to accomplish. It's like pulling teeth trying to get someone to go out with me. Even ethnic girls prefer white guys over ethnic guys. It's pretty bad in all honesty. Maybe there is an increase in interracial relationships when it comes to ethnic women and white men, since guys don't care. But, for ethnic men, it's a serious issue.
  9. candrew

    candrew Well-Known Member

    May 29, 2010
    Trust me, they'll find something else to differentiate themselves from others.

    There's already a light-skinned/dark-skinned divide in several races including the African-American community..
    Wes Mantooth and LogGrad98 like this.
  10. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

    Jul 7, 2010
    Over the past 100 years interracial marrying is on the rise. It is projected to continue to increase, but not at a crazy rate. I can't remember where I saw the study but they looked at how long it will take to homogenize humanity and that was the estimate given.
  11. RJF

    RJF Well-Known Member

    May 29, 2010
    As a disadvantaged minority, you can't opt out.”


    That’s what gets lost in this whole thing.
    JazzAvenues and LogGrad98 like this.
  12. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Well-Known Member

    Oct 10, 2018
    Link? I only heard of that myth from white supremacists who are afraid of losing their amazing whiteness.

    Full mixture would spread human features across all groups. It wouldn't erase them.
  13. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

    Jul 7, 2010
    What are you talking about? Homogeneity means it all becomes the same. The comparison that was used is Brazil where races are more inter-mixed in a lot of the population. With intermarrying the estimate was between 10 and 15 generations to mix completely across much of the world, with pockets that would be less homogenous, but at that point it would be minimal and usually isolated.
  14. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Well-Known Member

    Oct 10, 2018
    Full mixture would not result in every one looking the same. It means blonde and/or kinky hair would become common in China for example. Brazil doesn't show any kind of homogeneity. Still find all kinds of different looks there.

    And I would still like a link to said study. Sounds interesting.
  15. BTP

    BTP Well-Known Member

    Jun 7, 2013
    Not sure what you do mean "they". If it's African-Americans or minorities in general, I disagree and can eloborate on how I think about it if requested.
    On the other hand if it's mankind as a whole, then I agree. Recognizing patterns is a human ability that has long served various purposes of survival and efficient performance. The issue with racial bias and bias in general in the sense of prejudice is that there's no, little or faulty empathic-cognitive activity in humans before acting and reflecting on ones actions and intuition in general.
  16. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

    Jul 7, 2010
    Whatever you say bro. You can Google it.
  17. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Well-Known Member

    Oct 10, 2018
    Didn't think so.
  18. framer

    framer Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2010
    Actually these pockets would not be minimal and harmlessly isolated. If you take privilege as a problem, this is where it would remain the most ingrained. As much as people want to vilify poor rural folk as the problem, there will be a lot more mingling and interracial dealings there, then with the "progressive" set that owns summer homes in the Hamptons. That's where "homogenous," race and otherwise, pools together.
  19. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

    Jul 7, 2010
    Think what you want. I was simply posting what I'd read. I wasnt posting an "argument", I just found it interesting. There is nothing to "prove" so you can straw man all you want. And if you don't want to Google it that's on you. I don't care.
    fishonjazz likes this.
  20. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

    Jul 7, 2010
    Ok. I guess you did your own study. I defer to your scientific analysis.

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