Rank the Jazz's rivals in the Western Conference

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by Catchall, Oct 6, 2019.

  1. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

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    Losing not only KD, but Iggy, Livingston and Cousins leaves them with very little depth. Their defense probably takes a step backward. I'm interested to see how Alec Burks plays for them and how many minutes he gets.
     
  2. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    KD obviously is huge... Klay's health is huge...

    Livingston had taken a step back... Iggy wasn't good in the regular season (huge subtraction in the playoffs). Cousins sucked for them and sucks overall and didn't play much.

    They didn't replace the Cook's and Bell's either... it could wear their guys out... just saying if they are healthy for the playoffs and Russell is either good or turns into multiple pieces to help depth then I wouldn't want to play them. Depth matters less in the playoffs... top end talent and fit matter more... The KD-less warriors beat the Rockets. They might have beat the Raps if Klay doesn't get hurt. People forget that Klay is a Serial Killer in the playoffs. He was the one that held them together back in the day to beat that OKC team that had them on the ropes.

    Healthy Step, Klay, Green in the playoffs beats a lot of teams. I doubt they get that though...
     
  3. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    We don't need to compare them now to comparing them with Durant. We need to compare them now with pre-Durant GSW. What's Livingston now vs. pre-Durant? What's Iggy now vs. pre-Durant? Bogut was a huge part of their success, too.

    You had young and healthy Klay, Steph, and Green, plus having Barnes, Livingston, Iggy, and Bogut. Now you have none of the latter guys, a 32 year old Steph, a (how motivated?) Green, and a Klay who, even if healthy, is a question mark as to how much he is of himself. They're a decent team. They're not a dangerous team.
     
  4. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    They might be more dangerous next year. The depth is an issue... if Evans or Spellman can contribute it'd go a long way to helping. This year the main issue I see if they can't sign anyone because of the hard cap... like they can't even offer a minimum deal right now... so they won't get any of the buyout action.

    But let's say they are keeping their heads above water and Klay is on track to come back pre-AS break... Then some offers come in for Russell... Say Covington and stuff for Russell from Minny or Gordon for Russell from Orlando or Aminu/Ross/Isaac for Russell and cap fodder... all of a sudden the roster fills out a bit.

    I just think that big 3 if healthy is really dangerous.
     
  5. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

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    The Warriors also had surprisingly rugged interior play with guys like David West, Javale McGee one year, and even Festus Ezeli. Plus they had Harrison Barnes to fill out their death lineup before they picked up KD. Now they're going to be playing their rookies and jourenymen like Glenn Robinson III and Alfonzo McKinnie at forward.
     
  6. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

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    Klay has already said his best case is post AS break. He won't be 100% when he comes back.
     
  7. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    McKinnie is solid. The other guys aren’t great but their the types that Steph can make look good.

    The have WCS, Looney, Spellman at center which isn’t great but Spellman has lost weight and could be a contributor. If WCS is healthy he’s similar to JaVale in some ways.

    AB, GRIII, or Evans need to give them something. They picked up Paschall and Poole in the draft... one could contribute.

    Those teams with Barnes etc were seen as “loaded” so this warriors team isn’t as “loaded” as those teams but still very dangerous. Klay may not be completely healthy at any point this year but if he plays 2/3 months before the playoffs he could be good enough.

    I just think you can’t write me off yet.
     
  8. jom2003

    jom2003 Well-Known Member

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    Clippers and maybe the Nuggets
     
  9. Jazz Spazz

    Jazz Spazz Inconceivable Staff Member

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    TBH, I stopped reading right here. First of all with Ingles out of the starting 5, but putting him after Mudiay and Exum. I can't take this seriously.
    Who can compete with a team that has Mudiay as their 6th man, right?
     
  10. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

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    That's not a ranking of the players, just a 10-man rotation with players sorted by position.
     
  11. MVP

    MVP Well-Known Member

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    Lakers are vastly overrated. One semi serious injury to LBJ or Davis and they are not even making playoffs. The only solid complimentary piece they have is Green. Rest is pretty much junk scraps.
     
  12. campaignist

    campaignist Well-Known Member

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    I was afraid of Denver until I saw how fat Jokic got, yeeesh.

    Houston downgraded at least in our matchup switching to Westbrook, I’d favor the Jazz.

    The Lakers are scary but they have a lot to prove.

    I see the Clippers as the clear #1. The next tier is us, the Lakers, and Denver. I don’t see any one as unbeatable.
     
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  13. tleikheen

    tleikheen Well-Known Member

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    LA Clippers
    Denver
    Houston
    Jazz
    Lakers
    GS
    Dallas
    Portland



    Jazz have nobody who can control or slowdown Kawhi or PG, both these guys can shred top defenses and put the clamps on opposing teams best players.
    Denver has the same crew back and maybe the best rookie this year. They finished with a better record and went further in the playoffs than the Jazz did.
    Despite what Jazz fans think of Westbrook ,he's still better than Conley or DM and paired up with Harden their the best guard tandem in BB
    Jazz are too small ,they'll be dynamite on offense but theirs multiple teams in the West who will be dynamite on offense as well.
    Lebron shows AD how to win they'll be very very tough ,except their just 2 man team and need a 3rd if Kuzma is hurt
    As the Finals showed ,GS will have trouble against big tough teams and they'll miss Klay Thompsons shooting
    Porzingas and Doncic are going to be monsters on offense and Porzingas will challenge Gobert for blocked shots ,like the Lakers their looking for a 3rd guy
    Portland knows how to win ballgames with Dame and McCollum. Whiteside can be good but you never know which guy shows up with him.
     
  14. Jazz Spazz

    Jazz Spazz Inconceivable Staff Member

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    Whew, ok I’ll go read it now. It just happened to have 4 surefire starters in the top 5 and the rest in a random order then. That threw me off, I thought it was in order.
     
  15. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

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    I'm intrigued by the way the Jazz are becoming a more "positionless" team, with virtually anyone bringing the ball up the floor, and several of their guys being able to initiate. There's no doubt that Conley and Ingles will be primary initiators running screen/roll actions, but the Jazz were looking to create early offense and attack the rim with early breaks at every opportunity. Bojan, Royce, Jeff, Georges, Miye, and Brantley were all leading breaks last game.

    The Warriors' formula for success basically consisted of a) having 2 or 3 of the best shooters in the league spacing the floor out to 28 feet, and b) having 4 or 5 wing-sized guys who could all dribble, pass and shoot to attack those open lanes and score at the rim. The Jazz have made strides in that direction. It makes them very difficult to defend.

    Brad Stevens' Celtics teams have been trying to do this too, but their guys don't pass the ball, so it doesn't really work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019 at 12:39 PM
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  16. Engorged On Unborn Gore

    Engorged On Unborn Gore Well-Known Member

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    How exactly are they going to put the clamps down on the jazz with those two defenders?

    Neither of them is going to guard Conley, it will be Beverley. And as good as he is, he's not going to be able to stop the Jazz P'n'R by himself. Which begs the question: Who in the **** is going to guard Gobert for that team?

    It's not like they signed PG and 5 Kawhi Leonards.

    Yes, Denver is basically the same, and the Jazz improved their offense immensely. Explain more clearly, and more concise terms, why do you think Denver is going to be better than the Jazz. Because I don’t see it.

    They (opposing teams) have to be dynamite to compete with the Jazz. You can’t even name a team that can stop the Jazz’ offense.

    On the other side, every team has to go through man-to-man defense, and then Gobert. Plus, they have to deal with the fact that the Jazz are going to be making more buckets, forcing them into a half course set more times down the floor. The Jazz’s defense just got better by virtue of getting better shooters to replace Rubio, Favors, and Crowder.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019 at 1:54 PM
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  17. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

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    In theory, the Jazz *should* look like a completely different team this year. Both Conley and Bogdanovic are bonafide 3-level scorers, and they're replacing guys who are below average scorers in Rubio and Crowder.

    Conley averaged 21 ppg last year, compared to Rubio's 13 ppg. Both had around 7 assists. That's a big upgrade.

    Bogdanovic averaged 18 ppg last year, compared to Crowder's averaged 12 ppg. That's another big difference. Plus Bogey can dribble and pass.

    Jeff Green is much more talented offensively than Derrick Favors.

    So now there are Mitchell, who should average 25+ ppg, Conley and Bogdanovic who can all go for 25+ on any given night, and Gobert and Jeff Green who can score 20+ on any given night. That's plenty of offense. Ingles, whom we relied on to create offense last year, probably won't even be starting this year.

    I could definitely see the Jazz as a top 4-6 offense.
     
  18. tleikheen

    tleikheen Well-Known Member

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    C'mon ,I love what Gobert brings but he avg 32 plus minutes that last 3 yrs and only avg 15 ppg. That's not much if your the opposite team averaging 110 ppg.

    they won 54 games last year as one of the youngest teams in the NBA and now are ready to unleash maybe the best rookie (6'10 Michael Porter Jr) in the NBA this year and 25 y o (6'9"Jerami Grant) and Murray only 22 y o is already probably better than Conley at PG

    Jazz got smaller and lighter ,so you can't say the Jazz defense got better .Jazz will have to show they can rebound now and show the bigger more athletic teams like Denver don't pound then on the boards.

    I love that the Jazz have better offense finally but like GS who got dominated and pushed around in the Finals to the bigger Raptors ,Jazz could end up like GS with their small team.
     
  19. Engorged On Unborn Gore

    Engorged On Unborn Gore Well-Known Member

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    Averages don't tell the story between these two teams. The Jazz' offense is going to chew the Clippers up like a granola bar, and Zubac is going to be a repeat casualty. Conley p'n'r with Gobert, DM p'n'r with Gobert, Bogey p'n'r with Gobert, Ingles p'n'r with Gobert. If Zubac helps on any of our other starting five, Gobert is going to double his average scoring against him.

    The Clippers cannot help against a single Jazz starter. They're going to have to call an ambulance for Zubac if the Jazz and Clippers play a 7-game series.

    Denver can unleash anything they want and it won't matter. Regardless of record, the Jazz owned them last year. Gobert is STILL in Jokic' head. The Jazz have now added Conley and Bogey. Jazz in 5.

    I can categorically say that the Jazz' defense got better. Quinn's scheme creates open shots, we now have two more shooters, and made shots force opposing offenses into more half court sets. This is part of why the Warriors were in the top 5 in defense during their championship runs. So our improved offense feeds directly into slashing the number of transition opportunities opposing offenses will have at their disposal. The Jazz defense will now be better than it was with Favors.

    This puts all the pressure on opposing offenses to produce. So they have to make their shots because the Jazz will be hitting at a greater clip than they have in a decade.

    The Warriors have never had a Gobert at center.
     
  20. Wes Mantooth

    Wes Mantooth Well-Known Member

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    People are really sleeping on the Nuggets. They’re really young, really good, and added Grant and Porter who supposedly should be healthy and looks great. Supposedly. And Bol Bol too.
     

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