Rational CoViD-19 Discussion Thread: Science vs. Politics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by babe, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    Not surprising that some want to exploit an epidemic/pandemic for political purposes. Leave that crap outta this thread.

    OK, I've looked around, and some of the "Conspiracy Theorist" types have produced some facts about similarities with the "novel" virus with other viruses and can make it out as a laboratory monster released to control overpopulation or finally get the socialist flag planted on the political Earth equivalent of Suribachi.

    Doesn't even matter, really.

    CoViD-19 is something we could manage to reduce to a blip if we really wanted to do that.

    It is not beyond our technology to manage.

    This thread is for how to manage it, and destroy it's political uses.
     
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  2. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
  3. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    Public health measures are right now the thing we know we can do to stop c20. I get tired of long names, this is enough. When I write c20 you know what I mean.

    c20 will be slowed, the incidence curve flattened, by every kind of measure that reduces carrier contact with unexposed populations. It will extend the time frame some, but greatly reduce the mortality rate for the simple reason that we can treat a certain number of people and so long as we don't have more patients than we can treat, we will have a much reduced mortaility and disability rate produced.

    c20 will also be slowed by every kind of sanitary/disinfecting procedure applied to any site with the c20 either in the air, or on trafficked surfaces like floor, doors, bathrooms, food surfaces either in the kitchen or at the table.

    c20 will be slowed by every invidual who uses good hygiene when needed.... handwashing, face masks, containing infected fluids and properly removing these things from possible contact with others.
     
  4. Wes Mantooth

    Wes Mantooth Well-Known Member

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    Please lock this mods.
     
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  5. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    c20 medical treatment will likely improve dramatically and quickly, with the application of available resources plus those being developed now.

    Important facts that make c20 worth extraordinary measures include the higher "infectivity" that results from more effective binding to respiratory cell surfaces like the alveoli in the lungs. I think one thing that doctors are missing, still, is the benefits of general anitbiotics to a viral disease whose effects are predominantly secondary infection problems....

    If you are facing the reality of this viral infection, ask your doctor to address the secondary infection problem with some good anti-biotics.

    If you think you might be a carrier, or have some possible contact with a carrier, remember the surfaces affected are all exposed to the air, and the virus is killed by strong oxidizer agents like ozone and chlorine, which might irritate your passages, but like a swimming pool odor won't seriously affect you, and will disproportionately impair viruses and bacteria.
     
  6. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    What a horses' ***.

    Can't permit the posting of actual science.

    I have worked in "clean room" situations in viral research, I know what can be done to make an area safer. I know some things we can try to do to limit the progress of a viral infection. No I'm not a doctor, just a damn chemist/biological research worker.

    There are quite a few actual scientific articles available now relevant to this topic, and I will be bringing more in here.
     
  7. DasJazz

    DasJazz Well-Known Member

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    I think we've been fear mongered into hysteria over this virus which to date is barely, if that, a drop in the pan globally.
     
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  8. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    I can't just discount "news" or rumors from Iran or China regarding the probable severity of this viral disease, or the actual news outta Italy and Europe..... But there is a reasonable way to approach this, still......
     
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  9. Wes Mantooth

    Wes Mantooth Well-Known Member

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    Whatevs. I’ll just block this POS.
     
  10. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    So just browsing around, here's a bit from England worth a comment, as an example of the public information/misinformation problem.....

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/coronavirus-symptoms-should-i-see-doctor-covid-19

    reading down a bit, there is an observation on the serious effects including "organ failure", but following that is a false..... well..... misleading assertion that antibiotics can't help a viral disease.

    Sure, antibiotics kill bacterial infectious agents, not viruses generally...… but some "antibiotics" can kill some viruses actually. Generally reactive chemicals like soap achieve their action by disrupting organized structures due to solubility capacities. Soap breaks up cell membranes, but can disrupt a viral particle as well, depending on the exact viral particle's chemistry and organization. Oxidizing agents actually destroy the chemistry required in many materials, for a a virus or a bacteria to survive.....

    But most important, what the Guardian has wrong here, is that the c20 virus affects organs outside the lungs primarily by toxins.... bacterially produced and maybe even transported via a bacterial infection spread into those organs. So, in such a case, antibiotics can prevent the organ failures..... and indeed should be in consideration of doctors treating patients of c20.

    The c20 infection in the lungs produces a cellular debris field that is extremely suitable for rapid bacterial infectious agents to rapidly produce a serious infection, toxemia.... and death via organ failures, not just breathing difficulty.
     
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  11. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    There'll be stuff here that could help you.

    Sometimes, you have to hold your nose and go get the good stuff where you think the stink is intolerable.
     
  12. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    Here's another good article, which brings us up to date almost on the vaccine front, and also mentions Tamiflu trials that are surprising some as having a positive effect....

    https://www.livescience.com/can-coronavirus-be-cured.html

    Looks like some standard decongestant products already available are also helpful here.
     
  13. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    News on the vaccine front..... here's an "Establishment" institutional take..... It's gotta be a year before we can do anything because we gotta do business the way business is done" sort of article....

    https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/features/covid-19-vaccine-development/

    It does note the Israeli vaccine that the developing company says can be available in six to eight weeks, because it has been in development already for a long time, for a virus that is very closely related to c20.

    If it works, we'll use it. And we won't wait a year, either.
     
  14. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    So a couple of weeks ago I was posting in the China c20 thread about how the Chinese got the genome published, and how labs all over the world are using the genome to make the proteins that could be targeted as antigens. Whatever proteins are on the surface can be targets as antigens. Issues like structure, or conformation, as I used to call it when I worked in this exact scientific procedure, can't be expected to absolutely correlate with what is presented on the surface in a structural formation, but there is some hope we can luckily get a positive win, and do it very quickly, with this State-of-the-Art technique.

    It's a huge advantage to produce a vaccine this way because you don't have to "clean up" all the extraneous proteing materials of a tissue culture or live host in a petri dish or production tank. Less need for cross reaction testing, side effect worries and such.

    So as of Jan 10, the genome was out there, and the best labs all over the world were working with it to produce a vaccine. An early hope came from a lab in Australia. In Washington, using state of the art methods, a vaccine has been developed and is being tested.... the animal test running in parallel with a small human trial. They will soon know if they are getting antibodies produces.... the first sign of success....

    With the genome as the starting point, labs will be producing vaccines based on the antigen values of every protein present in the c20 virus.

    Just a sort of rational expectation...… we could have a hundred different vaccines being tested on animals----and humans----with parallel time frames, within a couple of months. And the ones that look best will be rushed on into production, first to protect front-line workers dealing directly with patients, and patients too...… and then a few months later available to the general public.

    That's the rational hope.

    And that's part of the equation that reasonably means if we reduce travel and spread of the virus, we can tremendously reduce the serious effects on the population. Economic impacts..... sure.... it's a hard bump in the road. But we can save the lives, and then people can go back to work.
     
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  15. Eenie-Meenie

    Eenie-Meenie Well-Known Member

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    Why lock it? Let's hear what Babe has to say. No one here is an expert on this, and neither are the experts sure about what has happened and what's going to happen next. Why stop the flow of information? That is really ignorant. Are we stopping Trump from saying all the dumb and false crap that he's saying?
     
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  16. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    This... This thread has far more intellect and thought put into it than most of the other thread even if someone disagrees. The same thread that predicted with absolutely zero thought that there will be 150,000,000 sicknessess and that weather doesn't effect viruses.
     
  17. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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  18. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    I read down a bit. This is quite similar to the general news and policy decisions we see, so it is pretty much the plan being used.

    I am frustrated because I think I know more than the experts.... lol...… specifically about things we could do...….

    For example, "sheltering in place" becomes objectionable, say, when forcing "clear" folks to just sit next to a "carrier", like on a cruise ship sitting offshore. We have the knowledge..... well maybe the experts don't want to see the facts...….to do better. When we have located a site where a carrier has been, or where a patient has been, we can do whole-site decontamination within a few hours, with some pretty simple measures.

    We can treat a car, a bus, a plane, a train.... quite effectively...…. in pre-emptive or prophylactic manner..... a flush of the HVAC system with disinfectant vapors/mists..... some effective treatments could be done with people in place, but say you evacuate the place, really disinfect it, and screen people coming back in. Social distancing and good hygiene is almost the same in terms of what I'd expect as the result.

    People can disinfect their little den or home or workspace on practically the same terms. We've run outta bleach in the stores, and sanitary wipes, though. We need to let the gov make some loans to companies who can re-start some plants and make stuff like that. And masks, respirators, filtration cartridges.

    I started reading your link and was just disappointed they weren't talking about immediate practical common-sense stuff like that.

    Did I say one of my nephews, a HVAC technician, is building units to put in homes which will electrostatically clean the air, and produce ozone for disinfecting the whole house to boot. I'd add in a little swimming pool dose of chlorine vapor. You'd still need some social distance, but it'd pretty much kill all the virus on household surfaces and air, and even virus in your nose and throat.....

    Patients should be treated with regular timed doses of chlorine or ozone, just a tad beyond the comfort level. It'd cut into whatever virus is moving in the fluid layer. I guess the experts just don't like simple things we can do.
     
  19. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    So anyway, I have been all over California and in places.... a good idea for me to self-isolate. My wife has been checking my temperature because every now and then for a few minutes, I get itchy eyes, a bit of a cough or runny nose. She says it's allergy..... lol.... but hey.... I have some concentrated Clorox, and I don't mind huffing a bit. But I'm off to the ranch for a few days, I think, at least until the call of the tax man lures me back to turn in my tax return..... lol
     
  20. Gameface

    Gameface I actually REALLY like Gobert! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    The amount of **** babe thinks he's an expert in is staggering.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using JazzFanz mobile app
     
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