Re-Tool Younger Trade Idea

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Jazz also cant afford to make any trade that isnt a clear upgrade now. I dont see how replacing Conley with OPJ coming off a bad injury is an upgrade.

Conley is still really good. It took him time to adjust to his first new team ever, shocker. I don't get how people aren't excited for next year without proposing wild changes.
I agree with your first point (unless Rudy won't commit long term). I also agree about OPJ.

I don't agree with the Conley excuses though. Playing well or not, we lost so much more with Conley than without. Data, stats, logic tells me we don't have to have Conley to be a good team. We could actually be better if Conley's resources were addressing much clearer need areas than PG scoring that Conley provides. We need defense and lots of it.
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
This year, Julius Randle averaged more assists (3+) than these guys who also averaged at least 27mpg....

Jason Tatum
Buddy Hield
Colin Sexton
Jae Crowder
Gary Harris
Joe Harris
Bojan Bogdanovic
Jaylen Brown
Porzingis

And the Knicks were absolute rubbish. Imagine if his passes went to Joe, Don, Bojan, Clarkson or lobs to Rudy. He isn't a point forward, but he can pass and handle the ball.
Randle also turns the ball over 3+ times a game though. I'm not convinced by his playmaking ability. But he does show the ability to create his own shot when the play coach designed breaks down, which is important given how much less reliable Conley has been on that end in comparison to what fans initially expected him to be.
 

homeytennis

Well-Known Member
The time to win is now. Rebuilding and wasting prime years of your best player, DM is just plain dumb. Rudy has his flaws but our defense would be horrible without him. He needs some help from our back court. jazz need to add some athletic wings who can defend the perimeter better and get back a healthy Bogie. I agree that Rudy is not a 30+ player and signing him to a max would pretty much shut down improving the Jazz with a really good FA.

The only reason why I would trade Rudy is if he gives me any indication he will leave or wants the Max. Jazz can not keep losing All=star caliber players with out getting anything in return. I want the Jazz to move Royce and Joe to the bench. Signing both Shaq and Justice Holiday would be awesome. Getting Bogie back will be huge.

I still have some doubts about DM at the PG position. He was awful in game 7. If that is the direction the team takes then I would have him spend some time with Stockton and talk about how to run the show. DM is a great scoring PG but he still has a lot of issues with his decision making in the passing game. He gets caught up in the air without knowing what to do. Maybe just more experience will help but it is a glaring issue in him being a full time competent PG.

Please no one Niang, Ed Davis Bradley types. We need to whittled down all of our young guys to 2 or three. Oni and Brantley, I think I would keep.
Our bench for this past season was awful. Take away Clarkson and the bench might win the GLeague championship. It seems the front office made its bed last summer when it sent away George King and Willie Reed after summer league, went all in on Bradley and made those awesome signings of Davis and Green. It seems like management and Quin did not want to admit mistakes were made and our season is now caput. A little stouter bench might have resulted in a few more wins and we might still be playing.
 

Thee Idiotic Minivan K

Well-Known Member
I agree with your first point (unless Rudy won't commit long term). I also agree about OPJ.

I don't agree with the Conley excuses though. Playing well or not, we lost so much more with Conley than without. Data, stats, logic tells me we don't have to have Conley to be a good team. We could actually be better if Conley's resources were addressing much clearer need areas than PG scoring that Conley provides. We need defense and lots of it.
Did you not read Cy’s post? He said it took a while to adjust. That’s the reason. He did figure things out. A full season next year, he and Don could do damage next year.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Yep. It IS that simple. Ingles was waived by the clips and was initially brought in as Exum's babysitter. A point forward is not that hard to find if you actually care enough to spend the time to actively look for one. You think all the assets DL has burnt which include FOUR first round draft picks and THREE players to find us a PG starting from George Hill to Mike Conley is not enough to land us a point forward? Nonsense
You really cant be this stupid.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Did you not read Cy’s post? He said it took a while to adjust. That’s the reason. He did figure things out. A full season next year, he and Don could do damage next year.
Conley took a while to adjust and still was not a factor when we lost 3 straight games to Denver. He couldn't guard anybody of meaning. On offense, he was maybe serviceable. The last 6 minutes of game 7 told me all I needed to know about Conley. He couldn't create and he couldn't hit a shot all while being useless on the other end.

We didn't need Conley to win one game against Denver. Furthermore, if we had Bojan, Conley really becomes pointless.
 

Thee Idiotic Minivan K

Well-Known Member
Conley took a while to adjust and still was not a factor when we lost 3 straight games to Denver. He couldn't guard anybody of meaning. On offense, he was maybe serviceable.

We didn't need Conley to win one game against Denver. Furthermore, if we had Bojan, Conley really becomes pointless.
None of this made any sense. YOU IDIOT!!!
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Conley took a while to adjust and still was not a factor when we lost 3 straight games to Denver. He couldn't guard anybody of meaning. On offense, he was maybe serviceable. The last 6 minutes of game 7 told me all I needed to know about Conley. He couldn't create and he couldn't hit a shot all while being useless on the other end.

We didn't need Conley to win one game against Denver. Furthermore, if we had Bojan, Conley really becomes pointless.
God youre a moron.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Conley just had a great statistical series. We got progressively worse as a team the longer the series went.

Explain to me how he was the difference we need going forward. Bring facts and not just Cy logic

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
You're actually too stupid to argue with.

Why should I even entertain an argument with someone who so blindly will believe any correlation that fits his narrative must equal correlation?

Just go back to trying to get this team to consist of dudes like Terry Rozier, Bobby Portis, and Julius Randle.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
You're actually too stupid to argue with.

Why should I even entertain an argument with someone who so blindly will believe any correlation that fits his narrative must equal correlation?

Just go back to trying to get this team to consist of dudes like Terry Rozier, Bobby Portis, and Julius Randle.
You can't do it.

And Rozier would have been so much smarter than Conley.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
You're actually too stupid to argue with.

Why should I even entertain an argument with someone who so blindly will believe any correlation that fits his narrative must equal correlation?

Just go back to trying to get this team to consist of dudes like Terry Rozier, Bobby Portis, and Julius Randle.
Rozier plays good defense. Would have cost us HALF as much in salary. We would have kept Crowder. We would have kept 2 draft picks.

Cy, you're wrong. It's okay because we're used to it. Unlike me, you refuse to admit when you're wrong. Conley is a terrible fit and an absolutely awful trade. Admit it.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I really can't. I can't do it with a guy who is as dumb as you. Do you think Stephen Hawking would debate some random *** dumbass on science? Nah, he probably wouldnt.
Rozier plays good defense. Would have cost us HALF as much in salary. We would have kept Crowder. We would have kept 2 draft picks.

Cy, you're wrong. It's okay because we're used to it. Unlike me, you refuse to admit when you're wrong. Conley is a terrible fit and an absolutely awful trade. Admit it.

ADMIT. IT.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Rozier plays good defense. Would have cost us HALF as much in salary. We would have kept Crowder. We would have kept 2 draft picks.

Cy, you're wrong. It's okay because we're used to it. Unlike me, you refuse to admit when you're wrong. Conley is a terrible fit and an absolutely awful trade. Admit it.
Rozier is a worse defender than Conley....

Conley is a good fit and it was a good trade. It's the best move the Jazz could have made and they did it. They should have done it earlier, but they got it done eventually.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Rozier is a worse defender than Conley....

Conley is a good fit and it was a good trade. It's the best move the Jazz could have made and they did it. They should have done it earlier, but they got it done eventually.
You're definitely wrong about Conley's defense vs Rozier's defense. We would have put Rozier on Murray when Conley was relegated to guarding the 5th best offensive player on the court.

After one year of Conley, you are completely wrong. What is our win percentage with and without Conley? How much did we give up? How much are we limited because of his $34.5 million contract this offseason? Best move we could have made? You're a joke.

Just admit you are wrong.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Jazz also cant afford to make any trade that isnt a clear upgrade now. I dont see how replacing Conley with OPJ coming off a bad injury is an upgrade.

Conley is still really good. It took him time to adjust to his first new team ever, shocker. I don't get how people aren't excited for next year without proposing wild changes.
I think Conley is an easy target. Some of us might think that the good shooting Mike may have been the outlier because we saw a lot of bad Mike. I think he also makes us small. He gets blamed, right or wrong, for Ingles struggles as well.

I think with Rudy's struggles at times this season and the defense being trashy against good teams that it is fair to question whether we need more than just some tweaks.

The flip side of this is... we were 13th in DRTG and were the #1 offense post JC trade. We do good in limiting the shot profile of our opponents... don't allow threes, solid at keeping teams off the line, and we are a good FG% defense. We are dead last in steals this year... we were 11th in 2018-19. We were 26th in blocks this year... we were 2nd the year before. Dead last in deflections... dead last in loose balls recovered. We were top 7 and middle of the pack in those categories respectively.

So there is some low hanging fruit that could get us back there. Part of it was Rudy had a lull during the season when he pouted. But we could also get a few guys on the bench that are super active and we might be able to push back to a top ten defense. Should be able to do so without sacrificing spacing. Maybe all we need to do is add some disruptors to take Niang's minutes and maybe part of JC, Mike, or Ingles minutes. We also need more from Rudy, Royce, Joe, and Don... I don't think Bojan, Mike, are capable of giving us anything that way. If we add Shaq Harrison or Kent Bazemore (or draft a Tyler Bey) and give them the Niang minutes is that enough? How big of an upgrade do we need at backup center? Can we add some variation to the defense to not put so much pressure on Tony?
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
Conley just had a great statistical series. We got progressively worse as a team the longer the series went.

Explain to me how he was the difference we need going forward. Bring facts and not just Cy logic

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
Well statistically we are actually better with Conley off the floor according to NBA on/off court metrics. He also had a negative net +/- in 4 of the 5 games he’s played for us.

Conley’s expertise in the playoffs is never winning a single G7 in his career. And he did bring that to the Jazz, a team that happened to have never lost a single playoff G7 in the 21st century.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Well statistically we are actually better with Conley off the floor according to NBA on/off court metrics. He also had a negative net +/- in 4 of the 5 games he’s played for us.

Conley’s expertise in the playoffs is never winning a single G7 in his career. And he did bring that to the Jazz, a team that happened to have never lost a single playoff G7 in the 21st century.
But hey, according to Cy, we are all idiots or nerds if we question Conley's role with the franchise.

Conley had one of the best offensive ratings in the history of the NBA playoffs yet we still declined the longer he played in the series. Goes to show that stats can be deceiving.
 
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