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RealGM reports Jazz interested in Trading for John Collins

Tremendous Upside said:
KO role? Is there any evidence John Collins would play a 100% selfless brand of basketball - doing the little things every team needs, hustling his *** off, moving the ball, not caring about his touches or shots? Because that's who Olynyk is, and that's what we'd be needing, not more scoring near the basket.
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I mean the same thing could have been said about JC coming into this season. Believe it or not players can make improvements and change as players.
 
Elizah Huge said:
If that was on the table we should absolutely do that.
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Vando and KO are better lol stop!!
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Ok but we don't have Lauri touches to give out to everyone
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For the record even before the trade I liked Markkanen better
Elizah Huge said:
Which is obvious but we do have KO + Vando touches to give to Collins. Collins barely has a higher usage rate than KO this season. Imagine Collins in the KO role with extra touches he’d be ****ing amazing.
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And they both have very few, not a winner. He may be talented, but he has no clue what to do with it, and if he hasn’t learned by now he never will. He’s what you call a booby trap, and ATL is tangled in it right now.
 
We are talking about adding to our offense, but is that what we need?

If we were to move on from KO, I would rather find a good defender who is at least a solid rebounder and decent on offense (doesnt have to be great either).

If we were to move on from Vando we DEFINITELY need a stout defensive guy who must be a great rebounder. Because those two areas is where we would give away from and thats what we actually need more of imo.
 
HermanG said:
We are talking about adding to our offense, but is that what we need?

If we were to move on from KO, I would rather find a good defender who is at least a solid rebounder and decent on offense (doesnt have to be great either).

If we were to move on from Vando we DEFINITELY need a stout defensive guy who must be a great rebounder. Because those two areas is where we would give away from and thats what we actually need more of imo.
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Yeah. Our offense is most definitely not the problem. We've already showed we can outscore pretty much any team.

Our defense comes and goes, though (not that Vando is a good defender).
 
I honestly don't know what JC could do in the Jazz offense, but no one else does either. This isn't a Lauri situation where we had him displaying what he could do on a national team. He has never displayed an ability to play a Kely Olynyk role. he doesn't play hard like JV. He isn't as versatile as Lauri. Inserting him into the Jazz offense would change the Jazz offense. He doesn't provide anything we really need. It'd be an interesting addition,but Im leaning towards it being a bad move even if it's basically free
 
Also the JC connection to the Jazz might be a hold over from the Gobert trade talks. We may not be currently interested.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Yeah. Our offense is most definitely not the problem. We've already showed we can outscore pretty much any team.

Our defense comes and goes, though (not that Vando is a good defender).
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The lowest hanging fruit is on defense. I believe we are 30th in some of the defensive rebounding metrics. I wonder if KO's shooting can be replaced by someone that fills in for Vando and then you get a rebounder/rim protector in for Vando... It's almost like 2 parts need to be moved around to make sure we don't rob Peter to pay Paul. I also wonder if this is an issue we work on after the season and roll with what we have. Like if you subbed out Vando and KO for PJ Washington and Myles Turner are you on to something?

We likely need to do a consolidation trade before next year. We won't have cap space as I think Beasley, KO, Mike all likely have their salaries guaranteed. I wonder if a good enough deal pops up in season or if we have enough expiring salary and picks that doing sign and trade deals in the offseason is better. See where our picks land and where we should invest our future cap dollars.
 
sip said:
The big problem that I see is to actually maximize Collins you have to put him in the Lauri role. The reason why his numbers have dropped the last few years is that Capela took over as the role man since he is incapable of stretching the floor and that left Collins as more of a spot up shooter. Personally I would rather continue to build Lauri's confidence in being the number 1 guy than risk him taking a step back to the player has been in the past. That is by far my biggest concern. I want to do everything possible to help Lauri build that star mentality.
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Can't say I agree with this concern. I don't see how they get in each other's way. The reason Lauri has been so successful is because he scores in a wide variety of ways. He's not reliant on being a PnR Roll man, that's for sure. He fits with everyone, that's a reason why he's so valuable. John Collins is not someone who needs the ball a lot, but he's also not someone who is built to stand around on the perimeter and only spacing. The Jazz run a much more dynamic offense than the Hawks with more off ball movement. It's not like Vanderbilt and Olynyk are playing the same role as Collins has been for the past few seasons.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Also the JC connection to the Jazz might be a hold over from the Gobert trade talks. We may not be currently interested.
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Those rumors aren't coming out of Utah... I can almost guarantee it. This is the Hawks and Shams putting his name out there to drum up some more talks. If a deal happens its cuz it was a steal imo. The more I think about it almost any deal we do is likely to be robbery... I think we are content but will be opportunistic... this summer you make a bigger move with more knowledge on the young guys and knowing who we drafted.
 
Locke has been praising KO all the time recently. If that reflects the view of the Jazz org I don't see him being moved unless it's for some really significant upgrade. I don't see Collins as one.
 
KqWIN said:
Can't say I agree with this concern. I don't see how they get in each other's way. The reason Lauri has been so successful is because he scores in a wide variety of ways. He's not reliant on being a PnR Roll man, that's for sure. He fits with everyone, that's a reason why he's so valuable. John Collins is not someone who needs the ball a lot, but he's also not someone who is built to stand around on the perimeter and only spacing. The Jazz run a much more dynamic offense than the Hawks with more off ball movement. It's not like Vanderbilt and Olynyk are playing the same role as Collins has been for the past few seasons.
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Lauri doesn't seem to do a ton of PnR and I think Collins doing the pick/DHO stuff in the middle of the court is intriguing... the stuff Vando does where his guy just drops into the paint would change quite a bit.

If there is too much duplication you can split them up for 12 minutes a game. I don't think their games are so incongruent that it wouldn't work.
 
KqWIN said:
Can't say I agree with this concern. I don't see how they get in each other's way. The reason Lauri has been so successful is because he scores in a wide variety of ways. He's not reliant on being a PnR Roll man, that's for sure. He fits with everyone, that's a reason why he's so valuable. John Collins is not someone who needs the ball a lot, but he's also not someone who is built to stand around on the perimeter and only spacing. The Jazz run a much more dynamic offense than the Hawks with more off ball movement. It's not like Vanderbilt and Olynyk are playing the same role as Collins has been for the past few seasons.
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The reason Lauri has been successful for us is that we have made him more of a focal point and he needs to be even more of a focal point based on results when he gets more shots. There is simply no way to maximize Collins without being a detriment to Lauri and I prefer to develop Lauri.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Lauri doesn't seem to do a ton of PnR and I think Collins doing the pick/DHO stuff in the middle of the court is intriguing... the stuff Vando does where his guy just drops into the paint would change quite a bit.

If there is too much duplication you can split them up for 12 minutes a game. I don't think their games are so incongruent that it wouldn't work.
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I tend to agree. Lauri really thrives playing off the primary action. Lauri and Collins share a lot of similarities (in a good way), but Collins is more tilted towards being around the basket whereas Lauri is more perimeter oriented. I think it works and would love to see what Hardy does by adding an elite rim runner. Even playing in a less than ideal role, Collins has been pretty damn good regardless. Last three seasons he's a 21% usage player at 62 TS%, not bad for someone getting phased out of their greatest strengths. Playing with Lauri is infinitely better for Collins than Capela, and I think Collins also benefits Lauri on offense as well. I don't even think you need to give Collins more shots to keep him happy, you've just got to include him in more actions.

Defensively, I think there's more uncertainty. Like Lauri, I think Collins is/was underrated on defense. I really liked what I saw from Collins in ATL's long playoff run. He's tougher than people give him credit for, and he has all the physical tools. I think both guys are versatile and pretty good in most situations, but at the same time you probably don't want either of them to be your primary rim protector or on ball defender. So while they aren't weak links, you probably need to fill out the rest of the lineup with at least one elite defender.
 
KqWIN said:
I tend to agree. Lauri really thrives playing off the primary action. Lauri and Collins share a lot of similarities (in a good way), but Collins is more tilted towards being around the basket whereas Lauri is more perimeter oriented. I think it works and would love to see what Hardy does by adding an elite rim runner. Even playing in a less than ideal role, Collins has been pretty damn good regardless. Last three seasons he's a 21% usage player at 62 TS%, not bad for someone getting phased out of their greatest strengths. Playing with Lauri is infinitely better for Collins than Capela, and I think Collins also benefits Lauri on offense as well. I don't even think you need to give Collins more shots to keep him happy, you've just got to include him in more actions.

Defensively, I think there's more uncertainty. Like Lauri, I think Collins is/was underrated on defense. I really liked what I saw from Collins in ATL's long playoff run. He's tougher than people give him credit for, and he has all the physical tools. I think both guys are versatile and pretty good in most situations, but at the same time you probably don't want either of them to be your primary rim protector or on ball defender. So while they aren't weak links, you probably need to fill out the rest of the lineup with at least one elite defender.
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The roster construction is just so unique and I can't tell if I am under or over thinking things. Like if you run out 3 guys that are more skewed towards the PF position but are positionally fluid does it work? Like is the third member of that frontcourt more like a center, pf, or sf? Do you need Kessler out there or do you want a guy like PJ Washington, Josh Hart, or a three and D wing type?

I guess you just take a great deal if one presents itself. Collins deal kinda boxes us in a bit... I think they can likely do better than what I would offer but he's been on the market forever and hasn't been moved yet.
 
sip said:
The reason Lauri has been successful for us is that we have made him more of a focal point and he needs to be even more of a focal point based on results when he gets more shots. There is simply no way to maximize Collins without being a detriment to Lauri and I prefer to develop Lauri.
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The quality of the shots he gets is what is huge for him too though.
 
What about some combo of KO, NAW, gay, or doke to the hawks, Collins to the cavs and love and a second rounder or two back to utah. Utah will have some expiring salary to sell next offseason and love can give us what KO is giving.
It gets Atlanta out of cap problems next year. And gives the cavs a core for quite a while. Also opens up some roster spots for some guys potentially and allows opportunity maybe for potter to get a little time.


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