Reasons you left the LDS church.

[Jazz Spazz]

My mind is already made up? Your statement made it seem as though you think those who don't believe in God only care about getting theirs; that one needs God to not be a jackass. I'm guessing you were raised Mormon, in a Mormon community, and don't really know what it's like to not be religious. If that's the case, why do you continue to assert things ignorantly (like your "without Jesus" statement above)? Say you're happy, that you feel good when you pray, are at church, that's fine; you know about those things. But don't tell me what it's like to not be religious if you've never been there. I know how Mormons talk about non-Mormons, I've been there, and it bugs the hell out of me because it's often inaccurate, condescending and dismissive. Shameful.

I started that sentence as a direct response to a rep Trout gave me, accusing me of being angry. If someone called you angry, and you didn't agree, you wouldn't just plainly state "I don't think I'm angry"? Context. It matters.

I can see how the wording gave off the impression about needing God to not be selfish. That was not the intent. There are plenty of very selfish people that use God as a shield for their true intentions.

You are guessing incorrectly.

I'm not sure what you mean about telling you what it's like to not be religious, give me a quote?
Again, what do you know of me? How would you know where I've been or not been? Talk about dismissive.
You know how a few LDS members have talked about non-LDS members maybe, but that has more to do with people than the system. Yes LDS members will talk about non-LDS people that live near them for various reasons, yes one of the reasons is to judge interest in the church, but there are also plenty of conversations about making efforts at being friendly instead of ignoring them as some people do, and helping them even if they are not interested.

As to the context, you didn't give it. You mentioned Trout, but did not clearly state what he said or that you were directly responding to something he said. Yes, context helps. By the way you do come off as angry with the church and any people that are members of it whether you intend to or not. FYI

 

[GVC]

Again, what do you know of me? How would you know where I've been or not been? Talk about dismissive.

I never claimed to know, I only guessed. I was hoping you'd respond. I'll ask more directly:

Were you born Mormon? Have you always been Mormon? If so, how do you know what your life would be like without the church/Jesus?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Excuse me? You know nothing about me, and continue to presume to know everything. I didn't run away from the church because I was angry about being told what to do.
I left the church, very sad and disappointed. It was hard as hell. I had no community to go to, no basis for understanding the world outside of the Mormon church/community. It would have been far easier to stick around.

Yea, wanted to see how you liked it to be on the defensive about yourself.
That was pretty selfish eh?

My first post was all about me, and why I have stayed with the church.
Informational only, and I don't need you or anyone else attacking it.
Why are you not so critical of people that posted their story of why they left?
Don't answer that, I'm done posting on this. My intention was to add my story, not start this whole discussion again.

 

[GVC]

Why are you not so critical of people that posted their story of why they left?

Because they know what it's like to be both Mormon and non-Mormon.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I never claimed to know, I only guessed. I was hoping you'd respond. I'll ask more directly:

Were you born Mormon? Have you always been Mormon?

I know how many LDS members talk about non-Mormons in general (that is, not even specific people they know).

Ok, I'll answer this before I migrate to Basketball again.

I was born in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, yes.
I lived in a state and area where there were few LDS members. Most of my friends growing up were not members, and half were not white, not that it really matters. I have friends that I grew up with in many different situations. Gang member friends, drug dealer friends, LDS friends that did not live the LDS life, LDS friends that did live the LDS life, friends that went on missions and came back to “come out of the closet”, friends that did not go on missions when pressured to, friends that did drugs that were not members, friends that did drugs as members…. I’m just going to stop there. I may not have seen, or had close friends that have gone through everything imaginable but I’m not in the bubble you seem to think I am in. I'm not even going to go into what I've lived personally because I don't want to.

I know not every member of the LDS Church talks about non members in a snotty or condescending or "whatever" way.
Yes, some do, but that has to do with people, not the "church".

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Because they know what it's like to be both Mormon and non-Mormon.

Pretty lame. You don't know what they know any more than you know what I know.
Try again.

 

[GVC]

Pretty lame. You don't know what they know any more than you know what I know.
Try again.

Look, let's revisit how this conversation started. You said:

It gives me something better to shoot for, than just live, take what you want, and die.

I was just trying to say that Jesus isn't necessary to live a life about more than getting yours. I think it should be obvious why someone who isn't religious might have a problem with your statement. I find it sad that you can't find joy/wonder/reason to be decent without the church. I find it sad that you require the promise of a heavenly reward to feel good about your life.

I even qualified my statements, in case I misunderstood, implicitly inviting you to clear things up.

I don't think it's lame to be less critical of people who talk about things they know about (through personal experience, research, whatever) than of people who talk about things they don't know about.

 

[Beantown]

I didn't grow up in Utah and I think that helps a lot. Church in Utah is very different and creates the judgmental atmosphere.


Also it comes down to happiness. For whatever reason I wasnt happy when I was inactive. As much as it sounds lame there wasn't a spiritual feeling in my home, and I would feel it in other active members homes. I remember stopping by a family friends home who is a patriarch and the feeling you felt was amazing. I know it's sounds odd but I wanted my children to grow up in a home like that felt like that.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Look, let's revisit how this conversation started. You said:



I was just trying to say that Jesus isn't necessary to live a life about more than getting yours. I think it should be obvious why someone who isn't religious might have a problem with your statement. I find it sad that you can't find joy/wonder/reason to be decent without the church. I find it sad that you require the promise of a heavenly reward to feel good about your life.

I even qualified my statements, in case I misunderstood, implicitly inviting you to clear things up.

I don't think it's lame to be less critical of people who talk about things they know about (through personal experience, research, whatever) than of people who talk about things they don't know about.

I can see how the wording gave off the impression about needing God to not be selfish. That was not the intent. There are plenty of very selfish people that use God as a shield for their true intentions.

You can find joy/wonder/reason and be decent without the church.

I made a post about the differences in motivation for doing things, a reward definitely should not be the reason I believe what I believe.
I'm not going to re post it.

Again, my post was about me, and why I do what I do. Someone who has a problem with a statement I make about why I do what I do should not project that onto themselves. I was not comparing my life to anything, just stating the facts.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I don't think it's lame to be less critical of people who talk about things they know about (through personal experience, research, whatever) than of people who talk about things they don't know about.

Which does not jive with what you are posting and doing.
They also spoke about what they know about based on their experiences, just the same as I was.

 

[GVC]

I didn't grow up in Utah and I think that helps a lot. Church in Utah is very different and creates the judgmental atmosphere.


Also it comes down to happiness. For whatever reason I wasnt happy when I was inactive. As much as it sounds lame there wasn't a spiritual feeling in my home, and I would feel it in other active members homes. I remember stopping by a family friends home who is a patriarch and the feeling you felt was amazing. I know it's sounds odd but I wanted my children to grow up in a home like that felt like that.

I have no problem with this.

 

[GVC]

Which does not jive with what you are posting and doing.
They also spoke about what they know about based on their experiences, just the same as I was.

You made statements about your life with the church v. your life without the church. If you've never been an adult, living without the church, how could you possibly know how you'd feel without the church?