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Renegotiate John Collins

whatthe said:
Cough, cough Zach Lavine..cough

I would do a John Collins + Space for Zach and picks.

And then a Walker, Sexton, Scrub for Ingram.

Embrace the high offense, low defense suckage.

Unrelated point, Cooper Flag's strong suit is defense (natural pivot point as we can add defense with him with all our high octane players).
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Zach Lavine is like signing 2 John Collins contracts for twice as long. He is a pseudo fake All Star with descending numbers and an albatross contract. He won't win you a championship as one of the top 2 players on a team. We can get Cooper Flagg without the Lavine signing.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Zach Lavine is like signing 2 John Collins contracts for twice as long. He is a pseudo fake All Star with descending numbers and an albatross contract. He won't win you a championship as one of the top 2 players on a team. We can get Cooper Flagg without the Lavine signing.
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I want the Jazz to stink for two years but still acquire talent.
 
KqWIN said:
Theoretically, Collins could have the same amount of guaranteed money. I think OP is shaving off some money because Collins could earn more money next year. There’s a slight risk for a potentially very big reward for Collins.
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The OP has Collins accepting a change from player option to team option. The scenario under which Collins gets a big reward is when he's desired by teams next year (in other words, does well this year). But the Jazz could (and maybe would) keep him in that scenario if there's a change to a team option. So he wouldn't get the "big reward."

If Collins stinks it up or muddles through the season, the Jazz will surely waive him under the OP's scenario. But there's also unlikely to be a "big reward" at the end of that rainbow.

It sounds like too much risk if I were in Collins's situation.
 
idiot said:
The OP has Collins accepting a change from player option to team option. The scenario under which Collins gets a big reward is when he's desired by teams next year (in other words, does well this year). But the Jazz could (and maybe would) keep him in that scenario if there's a change to a team option. So he wouldn't get the "big reward."

If Collins stinks it up or muddles through the season, the Jazz will surely waive him under the OP's scenario. But there's also unlikely to be a "big reward" at the end of that rainbow.

It sounds like too much risk if I were in Collins's situation.
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As OP has it, Collins would take $17M more this year at risk of losing $6M overall. You can do the math on having $17M more one year earlier, but he would only have to sign a contract of $6M or more to make even without considering inflation. He has a lot more potential to earn more than $6M, including the chances that his contract is guaranteed (to facilitate a trade for example) where he would make out like a bandit. If the Jazz keep him he would essentially gain $17M for free. His contract wouldn’t be $42M and $5M. It would be $42M, then $25M with $5M guaranteed.

The exact amount could be negotiated, $5M is a made up number. Like I said, you could theoretically give him the exact same amount guaranteed.
 
idiot said:
The OP has Collins accepting a change from player option to team option. The scenario under which Collins gets a big reward is when he's desired by teams next year (in other words, does well this year). But the Jazz could (and maybe would) keep him in that scenario if there's a change to a team option. So he wouldn't get the "big reward."

If Collins stinks it up or muddles through the season, the Jazz will surely waive him under the OP's scenario. But there's also unlikely to be a "big reward" at the end of that rainbow.

It sounds like too much risk if I were in Collins's situation.
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I think you’re overthinking getting a $17 million raise. I’m sure he can get an $8 million deal even if he has a down season.

But yeah, it’s worth thinking through the issue. He can’t really get a bigger raise than the max, and if he does have a total outlier season (he suddenly becomes a legit modern 4 and/or gets really good at defense), his extension number next year doesn’t require cap-space to re-up.

I can see some downsides to your point but I mostly see this as a no-brainer for Collins. I think the biggest hitch is that I don’t know if it’s legal (I think you have to extend for several years in order to renegotiate… but maybe not)?
 
Would we prefer to give the salary cap to Collins for an extended buyout? Or just give the money to Lauri and wait out Collins with the chance we can trade him next year as an expiring contract?
 
KqWIN said:
As OP has it, Collins would take $17M more this year at risk of losing $6M overall. You can do the math on having $17M more one year earlier, but he would only have to sign a contract of $6M or more to make even without considering inflation. He has a lot more potential to earn more than $6M, including the chances that his contract is guaranteed (to facilitate a trade for example) where he would make out like a bandit. If the Jazz keep him he would essentially gain $17M for free. His contract wouldn’t be $42M and $5M. It would be $42M, then $25M with $5M guaranteed.

The exact amount could be negotiated, $5M is a made up number. Like I said, you could theoretically give him the exact same amount guaranteed.
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The Jonathan Isaac R&E is probably the model here. You have to offer a total contract length of at least 4 years (1 + 3 in his case and this case). This is largely what you’ve laid out, but you make years 3 and 4 non-guaranteed to work around the obligation, but year two (‘25-‘26) would/could be $25 million with, say, $6 million guaranteed.

Another wrinkle would be that he can only receive an offer of this nature starting August 4th (which is three years after he agreed to his current contract). So, if the FO has already tossed around this idea at all as part of the Lauri trade/salary floor construct, things really do start to come to a head for all of it right about now.
 
Option 1: Extend Lauri now and give him an extra $23 million now so his contract is cheaper for the remaining 5 years making it easier to add surrounding pieces later

OR

Option 2: Save maybe $6 million at best on Collins to pay someone else next year

I prefer the latter.
 
I think the way to think about this idea is how much you could get in a salary dump vs how much you would have to add to dump Collins. If it's about the same maybe it is a little cleaner to not have to deal with other teams.
 
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