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Resign Conley... do or don’t

Handlogten's Heros said:
With Mike we are in between a rock and a hard place though. We need to retain him or else we have zero chance of having him when it counts... if we retain him we have a 60% chance of having him when it counts. We just have to bring him back with the right terms.

We also have to fill out the bench with guys that can step in and help us through the regular season competently and allow us to be some form of competent without Mike on the floor. We will have to get lucky... all title teams get a little lucky.
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These were our two years with Conley wherein we had maximum (available) flexibility to have that complement of players. We don’t have that now, and it only gets harder.

I know YOU know this. Just thought I’d drop that piece in here.
 
LoPo said:
We are capped out even without re-signing Conley. https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/UTA.html

So our options are to re-sign him or try to replace his production by:
- a minimum contract addition (less than $2 million)
- a taxpayer exception (a few million)
- #30 pick in the draft or draft trades

Just letting him walk really screws us in terms of asset management.
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Right, so Mike has us by the balls, in essence. Cool. We're gonna need to re-sign him, hope is feeling charitable about taking a team-friendly deal, and try to make changes elsewhere. If things don't workout with Mike later on, move him at the deadline next year.

So our UFAs are Conley, Ersan, and Niang. Miye Oni and Thomas are unguaranteed or partially guaranteed for next year. Is there a website with more details on guarantee dates? We can dump Brantley, Forrest, and Morgan at any time in favor of new two-way guys right? I think it's time we try searching for another diamond in the rough there. It seems we have a lot of flexibility at the back-end of the roster, and are really only committed to Doke and Hughes beyond this year.

It would seem unlikely we would use the taxpayer exception, because it would force us to go deeper into the luxury tax.

Seems our only means of improving the roster materially are the draft and trades. Ingles, Clarkson, and Bogey are the only guys we may be willing to trade that could fetch anything worthwhile. If we lose tomorrow, I expect at least one of them not to be on the team next year. We are not trading Rudy unless Don wills it. I just don't see it happening even though we should hear out offers.

I think we will bring Georges back on a cheap deal unless we need his roster spot in a trade or a really good vet wants to sign here for the minimum. I think Oni and Ersan are gonzo for sure. I hope we waive Thomas before his guarantee date. He will never be anything here. We will see what we have with Doke and Hughes during the summer league. With Doke's injuries, we really just have no idea if we have anything there.
 
This is cursed... Utah is in too deep!!!!! Ofc their gonna resign him n quite honestly its gonna seal the fate of this team as a pretender...
 
Ineptimusprime said:
Right, so Mike has us by the balls, in essence. Cool. We're gonna need to re-sign him, hope is feeling charitable about taking a team-friendly deal, and try to make changes elsewhere. If things don't workout with Mike later on, move him at the deadline next year.

So our UFAs are Conley, Ersan, and Niang. Miye Oni and Thomas are unguaranteed or partially guaranteed for next year. Is there a website with more details on guarantee dates? We can dump Brantley, Forrest, and Morgan at any time in favor of new two-way guys right? I think it's time we try searching for another diamond in the rough there. It seems we have a lot of flexibility at the back-end of the roster, and are really only committed to Doke and Hughes beyond this year.

It would seem unlikely we would use the taxpayer exception, because it would force us to go deeper into the luxury tax.

Seems our only means of improving the roster materially are the draft and trades. Ingles, Clarkson, and Bogey are the only guys we may be willing to trade that could fetch anything worthwhile. If we lose tomorrow, I expect at least one of them not to be on the team next year. We are not trading Rudy unless Don wills it. I just don't see it happening even though we should hear out offers.

I think we will bring Georges back on a cheap deal unless we need his roster spot in a trade or a really good vet wants to sign here for the minimum. I think Oni and Ersan are gonzo for sure. I hope we waive Thomas before his guarantee date. He will never be anything here. We will see what we have with Doke and Hughes during the summer league. With Doke's injuries, we really just have no idea if we have anything there.
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Yeah. We don't have many assets. Also add in that we can't trade our 2022 1st rounder or 2023 1st rounder due to the pending pick from the Conley trade. We could trade #30 in the 2021 NBA draft, but we would have to convey that pick during the draft or after.

We have to keep Conley even if we hate his constant injury issues or question his fit next to Don. Gotta have every asset we can possibly have. We are who we are. Outside of Don, it's unlikely that anybody makes substantial changes to their game for the benefit of the team. Rudy is 29, Royce 28, Ingles 33, Bojan 32, Favors 29, Clarkson 29, and Conley 33. We need a couple good perimeter defenders, and none of these guys are morphing into a defensive specialist any time soon.

This link has some additional information:

Utah Jazz Team Salary | Utah Jazz Player Salary and Roster Info

Understand how the Utah Jazz team likes to set up with the latest on the roster information, and see what each player earns in 2024 .
www.basketballinsiders.com www.basketballinsiders.com
 
LoPo said:
LoPo said:
Yeah. We don't have many assets. Also add in that we can't trade our 2022 1st rounder or 2023 1st rounder due to the pending pick from the Conley trade. We could trade #30 in the 2021 NBA draft, but we would have to convey that pick during the draft or after.

We have to keep Conley even if we hate his constant injury issues or question his fit next to Don. Gotta have every asset we can possibly have. We are who we are. Outside of Don, it's unlikely that anybody makes substantial changes to their game for the benefit of the team. Rudy is 29, Royce 28, Ingles 33, Bojan 32, Favors 29, Clarkson 29, and Conley 33. We need a couple good perimeter defenders, and none of these guys are morphing into a defensive specialist any time soon.

This link has some additional information:

Utah Jazz Team Salary | Utah Jazz Player Salary and Roster Info

Understand how the Utah Jazz team likes to set up with the latest on the roster information, and see what each player earns in 2024 .
www.basketballinsiders.com www.basketballinsiders.com
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Yeah. We don't have many assets. Also add in that we can't trade our 2022 1st rounder or 2023 1st rounder due to the pending pick from the Conley trade. We could trade #30 in the 2021 NBA draft, but we would have to convey that pick during the draft or after.

We have to keep Conley even if we hate his constant injury issues or question his fit next to Don. Gotta have every asset we can possibly have. We are who we are. Outside of Don, it's unlikely that anybody makes substantial changes to their game for the benefit of the team. Rudy is 29, Royce 28, Ingles 33, Bojan 32, Favors 29, Clarkson 29, and Conley 33. We need a couple good perimeter defenders, and none of these guys are morphing into a defensive specialist any time soon.

This link has some additional information:

Utah Jazz Team Salary | Utah Jazz Player Salary and Roster Info

Understand how the Utah Jazz team likes to set up with the latest on the roster information, and see what each player earns in 2024 .
www.basketballinsiders.com www.basketballinsiders.com
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That 46.5 mil to 33 or 34 year old Rudy is giving me heart palpitations right now. hooo boy. That's way too much to have committed to two guys like Don and Rudy that year to be competitive. The Lakers and Clippers can get away with it by attracting ring and beach chasers for the vet min to fill out the roster, but we cannot.

It'll be the "big 3" of Don, Rudy, and Mike for at least one more half season. I hope we at least start the road to trying to get a little younger this offseason with trades and in the draft while still working with the core of Don, Rudy, and Mike. That's all we can do unless we want to trade Rudy.
 
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Conley should be able to play effectively for 3 to 4 more years
His game has never been about explosive athletic ability
It's about great ballhandling and passing skills combined with extremely high BB IQ
He just needs to figure out how to stay injury free
Don't think he has ever had an extreme injury
At some point he will need to be a backup but he will be a very good one
 
He's a great player and a great fit on the court, as well as in the locker room and the community. He's also an undersized point guard who's about to turn 34 and who has had chronic hamstring problem both years that he's been on the Jazz. It's tough...he's so good and makes such a huge difference when he plays, but if he can't be out there playing during the playoffs when we need him most then his value goes way down. I don't really see any reason to think his health won't be a problem going forward.

Because of the hamstring and his age I would probably prefer we didn't re-sign him, but given that we won't really have any cap space even if we let him go, I'm not sure what we should do. Could a sign and trade be a possibility?
 
FAILED STATE said:
These were our two years with Conley wherein we had maximum (available) flexibility to have that complement of players. We don’t have that now, and it only gets harder.

I know YOU know this. Just thought I’d drop that piece in here.
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Yup I think people think we have like a 5 year window. The nba doesn’t really work like that anymore and the all star labor at bargain basement pricing was a huge benefit. We used that flexibility to help nab Mike and Bojan (good) but also squandered it on Exum and a parade of bigs (bad).
 
Jingled said:
He's a great player and a great fit on the court, as well as in the locker room and the community. He's also an undersized point guard who's about to turn 34 and who has had chronic hamstring problem both years that he's been on the Jazz. It's tough...he's so good and makes such a huge difference when he plays, but if he can't be out there playing during the playoffs when we need him most then his value goes way down. I don't really see any reason to think his health won't be a problem going forward.

Because of the hamstring and his age I would probably prefer we didn't re-sign him, but given that we won't really have any cap space even if we let him go, I'm not sure what we should do. Could a sign and trade be a possibility?
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Nope. Any sign and trade puts us over the apron and you can’t receive a player in a sign and trade unless you are under the apron.

Either you get Mike or you get nothing... next year I’d very much prefer Mike. In three years he might be toast and you’d prefer nothing. Based on DLs negotiating skills it’s a safe bet we give Mike 20% more than we should and an extra year more than we should.

Retaining Mike does mean you can move something else to fill in the roster imo... whether that is bogey or JC.

We done ran out of trade chips and are now putting our Rolex on the table.
 
slc said:
Conley should be able to play effectively for 3 to 4 more years
His game has never been about explosive athletic ability
It's about great ballhandling and passing skills combined with extremely high BB IQ
He just needs to figure out how to stay injury free
Don't think he has ever had an extreme injury
At some point he will need to be a backup but he will be a very good one
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I wish I had your optimism. He’s had multiple leg issues during his career. He’s small... he needs his speed and change of direction. He has 1-2 years maybe at his current level then he likely falls off a cliff. Our window is the next two years.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Nope. Any sign and trade puts us over the apron and you can’t receive a player in a sign and trade unless you are under the apron.

Either you get Mike or you get nothing... next year I’d very much prefer Mike. In three years he might be toast and you’d prefer nothing. Based on DLs negotiating skills it’s a safe bet we give Mike 20% more than we should and an extra year more than we should.

Retaining Mike does mean you can move something else to fill in the roster imo... whether that is bogey or JC.

We done ran out of trade chips and are now putting our Rolex on the table.
Click to expand...
At least it’s a vintage Rolex and also not our Patek Phillipe.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Nope. Any sign and trade puts us over the apron and you can’t receive a player in a sign and trade unless you are under the apron.

Either you get Mike or you get nothing... next year I’d very much prefer Mike. In three years he might be toast and you’d prefer nothing. Based on DLs negotiating skills it’s a safe bet we give Mike 20% more than we should and an extra year more than we should.

Retaining Mike does mean you can move something else to fill in the roster imo... whether that is bogey or JC.

We done ran out of trade chips and are now putting our Rolex on the table.
Click to expand...

Damn, so sign and trade is out as well. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Sounds like re-signing him might be our only option to stay as competitive as possible. I just hope we can somehow add a competent backup point guard for when Mike inevitably misses 20-30 games a year and likely some playoff games.
 
so Conley played

47/72 games plus 5 playoffs last year

51/72 games plus 5 playoffs this season


highest paid player in jazz history..


standards r low around here i guess...

To me, as an outsider, doesnt seem like Utah is getting what their paying for, y'kno? n Conley's the big winner here..
 
Only re-sign him if we can't get someone better, but I don't know what's possible given our cap situation. Doesn't look like we have a lot of options. Whether he comes back or not, we need a quality backup at PG. If he's back, he's going to miss games and we need someone who back him up who isn't named Mitchell or Ingles.
 
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resign
/rəˈzīn/
verb
  1. 1.
    voluntarily leave a job or other position.
    "he resigned from the company in protest of the treatment of his co-workers"
    2.
    accept that something undesirable cannot be avoided.
    "she resigned herself to a lengthy session"



re-sign
/rēˈsīn/

verb
  1. sign (a document) again.
    • engage (a sports player) to play for a team for a further period.
      "that win backed up my insistence that we re-sign him"
    • (of a sports player) commit oneself to play for a team for a further period.
      "they both played for the club last season and have agreed to re-sign"
 
Jingled said:
Damn, so sign and trade is out as well. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Sounds like re-signing him might be our only option to stay as competitive as possible. I just hope we can somehow add a competent backup point guard for when Mike inevitably misses 20-30 games a year and likely some playoff games.
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Yup... you sign him and then the pivot comes with other people. I think its the right move anyway. When Mike is healthy he's a winning player who is well rounded. He increases the ceiling of the team. We need to use Bojan/JC as trade chips to get better pieces but that's a long shot.

Most likely what we do is sign Mike and use the taxpayer MLE on someone like Rudy Gay. This will be mega spendy so you offload JC for a smaller contract and likely a worse player. We don't have the assets or heart to unload Favs.

The other route is praying you hit on a minimum guy like OP jr. ... Torrey Craig, Wes Matthews, maybe Marc Gasol (and you send out Favs for a different player with an equally cumbersome contract but fills a different need).

Basically all we have to do is hit a homerun around the edges... the exact moves we have ****ed up continually.
 
Lord Bullingdon said:
so Conley played

47/72 games plus 5 playoffs last year

51/72 games plus 5 playoffs this season


highest paid player in jazz history..


standards r low around here i guess...

To me, as an outsider, doesnt seem like Utah is getting what their paying for, y'kno? n Conley's the big winner here..
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DL and the sunk cost fallacy are best of friends. The more and more I think about it the more I think there needs to be wholesale changes with the roster but thanks to DL's brilliant roster building that won't happen without the roster being completely torn down and going into a full blown rebuild a la the thunder.
 
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