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Retool around Donovan


SoberasHotRod

Well-Known Member
OK, I'll play along. In this imaginary scenario I'll pretend Donovan is 100% staying for his entire contract, because there is no way I'm giving up even minor draft assets if he isn't staying.

First I'll try to get OG Anunoby for Bogey and two firsts.
Then I'll work on opening up a max salary spot for 2023. I think Conley can be delt at the deadline. I might have to give up a pick to get off Gay.
I think we likely still get a good draft pick in 2023, I'll just say we get Dariq Whitehead.

In 2023 Free Agency I try and get Kris Middleton + a center that can space the floor a little with the MLE. I'll pretend we can get Turner with the MLE since I also have no idea why Kris Middleton would want to come to the Jazz.

So then my starting lineup would be:
Mitchell, Middleton, OG, Vanderbilt, Turner.

We'd still have Clarkson, Whitehead, Fonteccino, Kessler, Balmaro off the bench.

That's about the best pretend scenario I can come up with.
 


idiot

Well-Known Member
OK, I'll play along. In this imaginary scenario I'll pretend Donovan is 100% staying for his entire contract, because there is no way I'm giving up even minor draft assets if he isn't staying.

First I'll try to get OG Anunoby for Bogey and two firsts.
Then I'll work on opening up a max salary spot for 2023. I think Conley can be delt at the deadline. I might have to give up a pick to get off Gay.
I think we likely still get a good draft pick in 2023, I'll just say we get Dariq Whitehead.

In 2023 Free Agency I try and get Kris Middleton + a center that can space the floor a little with the MLE. I'll pretend we can get Turner with the MLE since I also have no idea why Kris Middleton would want to come to the Jazz.

So then my starting lineup would be:
Mitchell, Middleton, OG, Vanderbilt, Turner.

We'd still have Clarkson, Whitehead, Fonteccino, Kessler, Balmaro off the bench.

That's about the best pretend scenario I can come up with.
This issue of Turner's value around the league is really interesting. All kinds of people say that his value should be reasonably high, but nobody seems to actually want to take him on as part of a real move. I guess free agency next year may provide an answer.
 

stitches

Well-Known Member
Retool is only advisable if the player we are retooling around is committed to this team long-term. Mitchell is not. And our FO knows it, which is why they are listening to trade offers. Noone shopping a top 20-ish player in the league at age 25 if they think he's staying long-term with the team. In essence, I've always been AGAINST trading players of the quality of Mitchell, BUT... that's only if I actually think we have a shot at competing before they want out. And he very possibly already wants out and we are not long before he officially asks out.

So yeah. I personally wouldn't do any of that. Just trade him and lets start next iteration of Jazz basketball and not waste time.
 

gomretat

Well-Known Member
Retool is only advisable if the player we are retooling around is committed to this team long-term. Mitchell is not. And our FO knows it, which is why they are listening to trade offers. Noone shopping a top 20-ish player in the league at age 25 if they think he's staying long-term with the team. In essence, I've always been AGAINST trading players of the quality of Mitchell, BUT... that's only if I actually think we have a shot at competing before they want out. And he very possibly already wants out and we are not long before he officially asks out.

So yeah. I personally wouldn't do any of that. Just trade him and lets start next iteration of Jazz basketball and not waste time.
Not only does the FO know Donny wont stay, the whole league knows it and has for sometime. I would be fine building around him if he was committed to Utah.
 

Release the Kraken

Well-Known Member
So yeah. I personally wouldn't do any of that. Just trade him and lets start next iteration of Jazz basketball and not waste time.
Sounds simple enough unless you’re trying to negotiate with Danny ****ing Ainge.

We don’t necessarily have to retool around him but all the tank Wemby dreams kinda go out the window if he’s in the lineup again this season. We can’t really keep him on the injured reserve or for that matter, play to lose, or his stock falls as a draft capital cash cow.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Still think the best version of a re-tool has a 1 year quasi-tank built in.

The hard part is that it will be hard to convince Donovan to be willing to sit out games if he isnt actually injured.

But you can trade all the true veteran difference makers on the team (Bogey/Conley/Beverly) and roll with everyone else and play inexperienced players like Udoka/Walker/Bolmaro/Butler/Simone major minutes.

Best case scenario is you still lose enough to be in the bottom 5-8 teams while having key guys play well enough to believe you can do a quick turnaround if you are able to sign the right players and nail your draft picks. Guys like Beasley/Vanderbilt/Simone look good enough to be quality playoff rotation players. Walker or Udoka look good enough to be a 20 MPG type center. Your draft picks are legit and give you enough hope for the potential moving forward to convince Don to stay long-term.

The thing you don't do is mortgage away too many picks in trades unless you get a firm commitment from Donovan that he will sign an extension. You try your best to build it organically into something that when Mitchell becomes a UFA he decides we give him the best chance to win a ring. Or you trade Mitchell in 2023 for basically the same packages you are getting offered now, maybe even better since Utah will have a more credible threat to keeping him.
 

Release the Kraken

Well-Known Member
Still think the best version of a re-tool has a 1 year quasi-tank built in.

The hard part is that it will be hard to convince Donovan to be willing to sit out games if he isnt actually injured.

But you can trade all the true veteran difference makers on the team (Bogey/Conley/Beverly) and roll with everyone else and play inexperienced players like Udoka/Walker/Bolmaro/Butler/Simone major minutes.

Best case scenario is you still lose enough to be in the bottom 5-8 teams while having key guys play well enough to believe you can do a quick turnaround if you are able to sign the right players and nail your draft picks. Guys like Beasley/Vanderbilt/Simone look good enough to be quality playoff rotation players. Walker or Udoka look good enough to be a 20 MPG type center. Your draft picks are legit and give you enough hope for the potential moving forward to convince Don to stay long-term.

The thing you don't do is mortgage away too many picks in trades unless you get a firm commitment from Donovan that he will sign an extension. You try your best to build it organically into something that when Mitchell becomes a UFA he decides we give him the best chance to win a ring. Or you trade Mitchell in 2023 for basically the same packages you are getting offered now, maybe even better since Utah will have a more credible threat to keeping him.
It’s possible but a tough juggling act I imagine. I mean we want him to look good but not so good that we’re winning too many games. And we don’t want to create concerns or suspicion on the injury front either. But I love the idea and the real world development for the players you mentioned that I feel are prime candidates and will show significant improvement. All invaluable down the line in regards to depth and team building.
 

gomretat

Well-Known Member
Still think the best version of a re-tool has a 1 year quasi-tank built in.

The hard part is that it will be hard to convince Donovan to be willing to sit out games if he isnt actually injured.

But you can trade all the true veteran difference makers on the team (Bogey/Conley/Beverly) and roll with everyone else and play inexperienced players like Udoka/Walker/Bolmaro/Butler/Simone major minutes.

Best case scenario is you still lose enough to be in the bottom 5-8 teams while having key guys play well enough to believe you can do a quick turnaround if you are able to sign the right players and nail your draft picks. Guys like Beasley/Vanderbilt/Simone look good enough to be quality playoff rotation players. Walker or Udoka look good enough to be a 20 MPG type center. Your draft picks are legit and give you enough hope for the potential moving forward to convince Don to stay long-term.

The thing you don't do is mortgage away too many picks in trades unless you get a firm commitment from Donovan that he will sign an extension. You try your best to build it organically into something that when Mitchell becomes a UFA he decides we give him the best chance to win a ring. Or you trade Mitchell in 2023 for basically the same packages you are getting offered now, maybe even better since Utah will have a more credible threat to keeping him.
The best version of retool was to keep Rudy and trade Donny with a few other pieces for some young talent and picks but that ship has sailed. As for Donny sitting, Donny will do anything he needs to do in order to maintain the image he and his agents want him to have so I think he would sit out if he was being asked to do so. Key for him at this point is getting his numbers.
 

stitches

Well-Known Member
Still think the best version of a re-tool has a 1 year quasi-tank built in.

The hard part is that it will be hard to convince Donovan to be willing to sit out games if he isnt actually injured.

But you can trade all the true veteran difference makers on the team (Bogey/Conley/Beverly) and roll with everyone else and play inexperienced players like Udoka/Walker/Bolmaro/Butler/Simone major minutes.

Best case scenario is you still lose enough to be in the bottom 5-8 teams while having key guys play well enough to believe you can do a quick turnaround if you are able to sign the right players and nail your draft picks. Guys like Beasley/Vanderbilt/Simone look good enough to be quality playoff rotation players. Walker or Udoka look good enough to be a 20 MPG type center. Your draft picks are legit and give you enough hope for the potential moving forward to convince Don to stay long-term.

The thing you don't do is mortgage away too many picks in trades unless you get a firm commitment from Donovan that he will sign an extension. You try your best to build it organically into something that when Mitchell becomes a UFA he decides we give him the best chance to win a ring. Or you trade Mitchell in 2023 for basically the same packages you are getting offered now, maybe even better since Utah will have a more credible threat to keeping him.
That's the thing though... can you imagine a reasonable confluence of events starting from the situation right now with Donovan's attitude toward the franchise, where we make Donovan sit out the 22-23 season and in 2025 he's like... "oh sure, I'm re-signing with Utah"? What needs to happen here in those 2 seasons past tank year that he will have such a change of heart? Does he fall in love with the LDS church? Or what? IMO we just need to stop with this fantasy and return back to Earth. IMO he doesn't want to leave Utah because we are not competitive. We were no. 1 seed in the West and he was already seeding the seeds for his eventual departure. If his primary concern was competing he wouldn't want to go to NYK. I really think there is nothing we can conceivably do to change his mind.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
That's the thing though... can you imagine a reasonable confluence of events starting from the situation right now with Donovan's attitude toward the franchise, where we make Donovan sit out the 22-23 season and in 2025 he's like... "oh sure, I'm re-signing with Utah"? What needs to happen here in those 2 seasons past tank year that he will have such a change of heart? Does he fall in love with the LDS church? Or what? IMO we just need to stop with this fantasy and return back to Earth. IMO he doesn't want to leave Utah because we are not competitive. We were no. 1 seed in the West and he was already seeding the seeds for his eventual departure. If his primary concern was competing he wouldn't want to go to NYK. I really think there is nothing we can conceivably do to change his mind.
OH yeah, I doubt it happens. IT's threading a needle and would require a lot of luck. I'm just saying if he has to stay on for another year, that's what I would do. Best case scenario is you convince NYK that they are no longer the favorite to sign Mitchell as Utah is clearly better and other destinations (LA/Miami) even ahead of them on his free agency list, so they have to make the move to get him.

Like, winning the lottery, getting Victor, and him obviously being a top 10 talent of all time kind of time kind of luck.

Im 100% team trade Mitchell, but I think you can be really bad with him without really hurting your tank too much and without hurting the value Mitchell could get (will probably be relatively the same next year).
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
The best version of retool was to keep Rudy and trade Donny with a few other pieces for some young talent and picks but that ship has sailed. As for Donny sitting, Donny will do anything he needs to do in order to maintain the image he and his agents want him to have so I think he would sit out if he was being asked to do so. Key for him at this point is getting his numbers.
Keeping Rudy means you win a ton of games. It's nearly impossible to retool around Rudy unfortunately.
 


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