Roe v. Wade is going down

[Eminence]

Interesting idea Eminence! Equal skin in the game. The father and mother both have to make child support payments (90% of their income) to a holding account for the child with required approval from both mother and father for any expenditures. If a father misses a payment then slavery for him and if the mother misses a payment then slavery for her. Life sentence and equal skin in the game. The mother and father, in the case of separation, both get 50% custody. The mother and father both get absolutely equal say in decisions involving the child. In the case of abortion, both the mother and father get absolute equal say. There are no tie-breakers. If mother wants an abortion and father does not then they do not have adequate consensus to take any action.

I'm not sure I'd support your dystopian idea for how you believe parenting should rightfully function but I'll admit that 'Eminence's equal-skin-in-the-game model for parenting' is an intriguing thought experiment. Good luck getting women to buy into it but fishonjazz seems to like your proposal.

Would you say busting a nut and a carrying a pregnancy to term are approximately equal amounts of skin?

 

[MVP]

It is no different from Shamaiya Hall deciding she didn’t want kids and so she killed 3 of them by stabbing them to death.

For you maybe it is no different. Thankfully for most of sane world it is.

 

[Gameface]

May I take this thread to propose actual slavery for deadbeat dads in our lovely coming Republican utopia? Knock em up and make a run for it? Life sentence. Miss a child support payment (I suggest raising this to 90% of income)? Life sentence.

Have to give men equal skin in the game here somehow.

I think there needs to be significant reform in how child support is assessed. I've known several people that essentially live in poverty because of ridiculous child support payments. Amounts that I can tell you 100% are more than I've ever spent as a result of having a child (one that lives in the house with me and the mother). I think regular spending audits should be done on the recipient to determine that they are actually spending that money on their child(ren).

And it is sad that it is assumed that a father pays child support and a mother collects it. Women have a massive advantage in custody cases.

 

[Eminence]

I think there needs to be significant reform in how child support is assessed. I've known several people that essentially live in poverty because of ridiculous child support payments. Amounts that I can tell you 100% are more than I've ever spent as a result of having a child (one that lives in the house with me and the mother). I think regular spending audits should be done on the recipient to determine that they are actually spending that money on their child(ren).

And it is sad that it is assumed that a father pays child support and a mother collects it. Women have a massive advantage in custody cases.

If we’re back in serious land for a moment - it’s an area that should probably avoid sweeping rules when it can and be very case by case in judging. My ‘proposal’ is certainly idiocy.

I do think mothers in our country generally do a better job as parents so even a just system could look to favor them through some lenses.

 

[One Brow]

... or the baby is enslaving her but because the baby is a minor it makes the mother responsible so again the mother is the one enslaving the mother.

That means the mother has the right to decide that the embryo/fetus no longer wants to be in the womb.

The government's role is not enslavement but only one of preventing one human from deliberately killing another.

If you have a method of removal that allows the fetus to live, I'll support it. However, the fetus's right to live can not be enforced at the cost of the pregnant person's rights. Were that to happen in any other setting, you would be the first to be howling at people having their rights abridged.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Party of small government… this definitely won’t be intrusive or cause harm…

Idaho Is About To Be The First State To Restrict Interstate Travel For Abortion Post-Roe

A bill would create a whole new crime — dubbed “abortion trafficking” — a felony offense that aims to limit minors’ ability to travel for abortion care without parental consent.

www.huffpost.com

Why stop there? Why not ban people from leaving the state to do anything that the GOP legislature disagrees with? Travel to a liberal state? Banned! Travel to a gay marriage or drag show? Banned! Travel to read a book? Banned!

Hell, why not just ban all citizens from leaving the state entirely? That’s what true freedom is about.

Imagine the outcry from the right if a blue state banned the purchase of certain guns or ammo? I bet the Supreme Court would totally support that. Oh wait…

These bans are Complete overreach. Hopefully this combined with Trump leads to a wipeout in 2024. Then we can codify Roe nationally. Every woman deserves choice. Repubs are sowing the wind. They’ll soon reap the whirlwind.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

That means the mother has the right to decide that the embryo/fetus no longer wants to be in the womb.

Or the right to decide if an infant is left in the car on a hot day. The mother can choose to do these things as the mother has agency, but if the decision to remove from the womb or leave in the hot car leads to the death of the child then I think the mother should be held responsible.

 

[One Brow]

Or the right to decide if an infant is left in the car on a hot day. The mother can choose to do these things as the mother has agency, but if the decision to remove from the womb or leave in the hot car leads to the death of the child then I think the mother should be held responsible.

the difference being that one is defending herself, and the other is not.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

the difference being that one is defending herself, and the other is not.

In both cases the only thing being defended against is having a living child. The mother did a thing which conceived a child and decided later that she did not want to raise a child and so set about killing the child. The ONLY difference is that one child was pre-delivery while the other was post-delivery.

 

[MVP]

Or the right to decide if an infant is left in the car on a hot day. The mother can choose to do these things as the mother has agency, but if the decision to remove from the womb or leave in the hot car leads to the death of the child then I think the mother should be held responsible.

You keep mixing two things - child and fetus. Fetus is not the child.

 

[fishonjazz]

You keep mixing two things - child and fetus. Fetus is not the child.

Ya its weird he doesn't know the difference. I mean I can take care of a child. Anyone can. I cant take care of a fetus in a womans body though. Without that womans body the fetus dies. Seems pretty obvious.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

You keep mixing two things - child and fetus. Fetus is not the child.

A fetus and a child are the same thing. The term "with child" has been used to describe pregnant women for as long as we've had language. The delivery process does not fundamentally change what the child is. It was the offspring of a mother and father before birth and is the offspring of a mother and father after birth. It is a child. You are building a semantic wall in your head to morally justify an act that is truly horrific. An abortion is a mother choosing to kill her child.